Friday, February 3, 2017

President Trump Tells Former Ukrainian Prime Minister Tymoshenko That He Will Not Lift Russia Sanctions

Yulia Tymoshenko

Kenneth P. Vogel, David Stern and Michael Crowley, Politico: Trump tells Ukrainian politician he won't lift Russia sanctions

The president appears to take a harsher stance on Russia in an unusual private meeting.

During an unusual private meeting on the sidelines of Thursday’s National Prayer Breakfast, President Donald Trump promised a Ukrainian opposition leader that the United States won’t lift sanctions on Russia until it pulls out of Ukraine, according to three people briefed on the meeting.

Within hours of meeting with both Trump and Vice President Mike Pence at the prayer breakfast, former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko relayed the contents of the meeting to separate audiences at the Heritage Foundation and the Hudson Institute, according to people who attended the off-the-record events at the conservative think tanks.

Read more ....

WNU Editor: This story has only been discussed in a few Ukrainian blogs .... and there is no mention of it in Russian media. Apparently this Trump-Tymoshenko discussion only lasted a few minutes, and there is no public record of it with the exception of a few people who have been briefed on it .... and in turn they have leaked it to the Politico. What's my take .... President Trump's private talk with someone who is going to run against Ukrainian President Poroshenko in the next election is going to be viewed in Ukraine as a lost of confidence from Trump in Ukrainian President Poroshenko. Interestingly .... President Trump also avoided meeting President Poroshenko when the Ukrainian President made a visit to the UN in New York City in September. Hmmmmm .... my gut is telling me that there is something more to this story than what is being reported on. As to President Trump's assurance to former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko that sanctions will not be lifted .... if true it is the wrong message to send .... and definitely the wrong person to communicate it to. On a side note from last year .... Report: Trump Aides Fought Release Of Ukraine's Tymoshenko In 2012 (RFE).

Hat tip to Jay for this link.

17 comments:

B.Poster said...

"...if true it is the wrong message to send..." This is true. The best approach would have been to anounce forcefully we are doing all we can to get sanctions lifted or, at the very least, say nothing at all. My "gut" agrees with your "gut." There's something more to this story.

Stephen Davenport said...

lol, what is with you and Ukraine, man. Shit, you sound like Ukraine should just hand the country back to the soviets because the Russians still own their asses. Ukraine bad, Russia good, that's you. As an analogy, to you, if Mexico's little green men, took California, and encouraged Mexican speakers to attack and start a shooting conflict that took, Laredo, Corpus Cristi and Brownsville, the US would not be allowed to be pissed about it and the Mexicans should be rewarded for it, because in past history Mexico owned California and Texas. Get real, Ukraine is the victim here not the Russians, get over it.

Ruben Acosta said...

Ukraine not bad, illegal government in Kyiv bad. Rest of Ukraine good.
Also, not all Ukraine is same Ukraine as can be seen clearly today.

James said...

"according to three people briefed on the meeting." Well that was easy. Do these three now wonder about their career futures or were they trusted to send a "message"? Now it will be instructive of how much interest will be shown as to who these three people are, and by whom.

Jay Farquharson said...

I guess we now know who the US is going to install as the next President of the Ukraine.

B.Pos said...

Jay,

I'm not sure how we know the US is going to install anyone as the next president of Ukraine. While it may be able to work in concert with others, even if it wanted to, it doesn't have that kind of power to determine on its own who is going to be the next president of Ukraine.

With that said I'm pretty sure the Russians don't have a good opinion of "Porky" as you called him. As such, it would seem a good move for a US POTUS to try and do all he can to distance himself from that person.

Stephen,

Very respectfully this situation is much to complex to make blanket statements such as "Russia good", "Ukraine bad." I think you've read my posts here before. As such, I think you are aware that I tend to approach things from a realpolitik perspective. Essentially how are the security and economic interests of the American people best represented and within this framework what is possible. There is often a big difference between what is possible and what is optimal.

As to your analogy, as an American, I am very empathetic to it. We are already facing a de facto invasion from the south. As such, the wall should have been built long ago. Should it advance to the level you suggest and I think we are closer to this level than many realize, the US will have no help from anyone, there will be a flurry of general assembly resolutions condemning any actions the United States might take, there will massive solidarity protests around the world supporting the Mexicans, removing the US dollar as world reserve currency as world reserve currency will be sped up, the UN Security Council will weigh in, depending upon the makeup of the non permanent members at that time the vote would likely be anywhere from 14-1 to 10-5 against the United States and while the US can veto the message would have been sent loud and clear. This will likely be followed up with the major world powers setting up "no fly zones" and "safe zones" to protect the Mexicans and ICC trials against Americans and their leaders coupled with crippling sanctions placed on the United States and it's people. All of this might be avoided, if we could secure the support of major world powers.

Ukraine can offer us no help here nor is it likely they would even try to even if they could. The editor of this site has done a good job documenting the corruption of that government. In short, Ukraine is a net liability that needs to be jettisoned immediately.

Now at best those who supported the removal of the former government simply did not understand just whom they were supporting and at worst they were complicit in a coup. It was very bad optics, at the very least, to be seen supporting the Poroshenko government.

Finally, at a very minimum, it needs to be communicated very loudly and very clearly that an alliance with America is just that. If you screw us, we will take note and act accordingly and it is NOT a blank check to do whatever you want. We can't afford it nor is it reasonable for such allies to think we should be obligated to support them no matter what hair brained scheme they come up with.

Jay Farquharson said...

https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/13/the-mess-that-nuland-made/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

http://orientalreview.org/2014/02/07/what-about-apologizing-to-ukraine-mrs-nuland/

B.Poster said...

Jay,

Thanks for the links on Victoria Nuland. I will check these out time permitting.

I was thinking about her when posting here but could not remember her last name and time constraints did not allow me to look it up. To say I was immensely pleased to learn on this website that she resigned is a massive understatement. Unfortunately people like her are like cancer. Those once afflicted even when they learn they are in remission live in abject terror wondering if it is really gone. Such is the case with people like Ms. Nuland.

At best she and her cohorts are complete idiots who didn't think through what they were doing and were clueless on who they were supporting. At worst, they are criminals. In any event, I've long thought she and her cohorts should be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible. Let a court sort this one out. Regardless of stupidity or intent the damage she and her cohorts have done to America's security and economic interests is incalcuable.

Jay Farquharson said...

Robert Kagan is her husband and is a Trump advisor.

Elliot Abrams, one of their peers and BFF's is Trump's nominee for UnderSecretary of State, the day to day job of running State.

Peter Switzer, Neo-Con Extroidinare + Goldman Sachs

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42761.pdf



Jay Farquharson said...

Wrong link:

http://m.democracynow.org/stories/16846

Trump's Cabinet is 1/3 White Nationalist, 1/3 NeoCon, 1/3 Goldman Sachs.

B.Poster said...

So Robert Kagan told Mr. Trump to fire his wife. He de facto fired her. Had she stayed, as the editor pointed out, she would have been assigned to a meaningless post.

As for the cabinet, "white nationalists" are almost universally despised by everyone. They must be there for comedy relief only. As for "neo cons" they are almost universally despised as well. Being labeled a "neo con" is a bit like being accused of rape. If you can't prove you're innocent, career over at best.

This would leave only Goldman Sachs. Such business types generally value stability and aren't prone to stupid moves like Ukraine. At least this has been typically the case. Oh well so much for the idea of Trump being an asset of Putin. If he were such an asset, there would be increased possibility of improved relations with Russia. After all one preserves, advances, and protects their assets. Forbes had this right. Mr. Putin is the most powerful man in the world. Being an asset of his would be a very good things in terms of security and economic advancement.

As an anonymous poster on another thread pointed out, Russia's demographic problems will catch up with it in 50 years. If America continues it's current policies, it won't exist in 5 years!! Even if it did a complete change right now, so much damage has bern done that it's survival beyond this time frame is problematic at best.

Jay Farquharson said...

LMFAO,

Last time NeoCon's were in the Cabinet 2 failed wars morphed into 9? 12? 18? It's hard to keep count,

Last time Goldman Sach's was in the Cabinet, Global Economic Meltdown,

Last time White Nationalists were in the Cabinet, Emmet Till, 3896 lynchings a year and Segregation,

LMFAO

B.Poster said...

Goldman Sachs isn't nearly influential enough to bring about a global economic meltdown. While they likely contributed, they aren't nearly influential enough to do such a thing on their own or even stop such a thing based on the actions of others.

All Americans are aware of the white nationalists and what they did. We are reminded of it daily and watch like vigilantes to ensure it never happens again. To most white Americans preventing this sort of thing from ever occurring again is more important than stopping Islamic terrorism or illegal immigration. As such, any person of this ilk who holds power is only doing so for comic relief and to prove we aren't racists while we slap them down.

As for the neocons, the military is now broken. They are universally despised and Mr. Trump will be impeached or worse if the United States ends up in yet another war. As such, all they can do is occupy desk space and keep their mouths shut or end up suffering a very bad fate themselves.

B.Poster said...

Most Americans didn't even notice "the global economic meltdown." They are to busy just trying to survive. This is something for rich foreigners to worry about. Americans are trying to secure for themselves a level of dignity, security, and wealth that 99.999% of earth's population takes for granted.

Jay Farquharson said...

LMFAO

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2687553

B.Poster said...

Jay,

Thanks for the link. Most Americans understand Huffingtonpost for the anti-American news source it really is. Furthermore most Americans would GLADLY pay reparations to any and all African Americans to whatever extent they might ssk even if it meant bankrupting America and "cracker" forever assuming they'd let us live in peace. Of course they will NEVER allow us to live in peace. We've already been punished far worse than the slaves ever were. Vengence demands the punisnment be continued and expanded upon!!

Jay Farquharson said...

LMFAO