MT @MarineNationale #COMPTUEX du #CSG Theodore Roosevelt : Le #SNA #Saphir en chasse http://t.co/2Gv7BNBKCP pic.twitter.com/1xrGtKyDFr
— Marquis de Seignelay (@FauteuilColbert) February 17, 2015
The Aviationist: U.S. aircraft carrier and part of its escort “sunk” by French submarine during drills off Florida
If you thought aircraft carriers were invincible you were wrong.
On Mar. 4, the French Ministry of Defense released some interesting details, about the activity conducted by one of its nuclear-powered attack submarine (SNA) in the waters of the North Atlantic Ocean.
According to French MoD website (that is no longer online, even if you can still find a cached version of the article titled “Le SNA Saphir en entraînement avec l’US Navy au large de la Floride”), the Saphir submarine has recently taken part in a major exercise with the U.S. Navy off Florida.
WNU Editor: I am sure this raised a few eyebrows .... in the Pentagon, France, other defense ministries. I would also love to know who ordered the deletion of this news on the French MoD website .... was it U.S. pressure?
More News On A French Submarine 'Sinking' A US Aircraft Carrier Group During Wargames
French Submarine 'Sinks' Entire US Aircraft Carrier Group During Wargames -- Sputnik
French delete evidence US carrier was 'sunk' by sub in drill -- RT
French Submarine Sinks US Aircraft Carrier During Drills -- MINA
6 comments:
This is not news.
I have seen pictures like this from American subs. It has been happening since WW2 and during war games by Americans subs as well.
Question is where was the sinking?
Was it blue water ocean?
Was it in a place with a lot of island and other hiding places?
How do experts rate the French sub versus American attack subs?
I am sure the Chinese Navy loves its' carriers, but they might love their airstrips in the South China sea as much or more and now we see why.
I can't imagine why anyone would think aircraft carriers are "invincible." Only a person who has no experience or knowledge or someone to blinded by their ideology to think critically would believe such a thing.
When I read about the limitations of aircraft carriers about three years ago, the conclusion I tentatively came to regarding these things is "floating death traps." This is quite the opposite of being invincible!!
As to the truth of the matter, it is probably somewhere in between. I think the most accurate assessment would be aircraft carriers can make a value added contribution to military conflicts in some situations but in others they would have negative utility. As to when and not to use them, is likely to lengthy to put in one post.
As to whether or not this is "news" would depend upon the situation and the circumstances. I've never liked the term "war games." The US faces existential threats on multiple fronts from multiple sources. It is VITALLY important that our armed forces prepare for them. Since it is a "war game", for lack of a better description, these exercises can be thought of as a "scrimmage" where the coaches, in this case the admirals and the generals, are trying out new things, and the soldiers, in this case the military personnel are trying new plays to find out what works and doesn't work and personnel may be working in areas where they lack experience to try and improve their skills.
Essentially what would happen when things go "live?" Without knowing the parameters of the "scrimmage" it's hard to know what this actually means and whether or not it "raised eyebrows" would depend upon the situation surrounding the "game."
For example, if the US were using the "backups" to get them experience and the French were using the "starters" this may or may not tell us much. I think it does indicate the US is not the world dominating colossus military some seem to think it is. I'm being called away from the computer. Time permitting I will continue.
If the French can sink a US aircraft carrier, then I think it goes without saying that much stronger navies of Russia and china would also be able to do so. Also, Iran has practice/war gamed with America as the primary enemy for some time with a special emphasis on sinking aircraft carriers. As such, the French navy is nowhere close to as good as the Russians, the Chinese, or the Iranians when it comes to naval warfare.
I think this is additional evidence that the 41% of Americans who believe when polled that the US is one of several major military powers as opposed to the clear number one power are correct. For years I've known this and have assumed the generals, admirals, and intelligence personnel are among those who understand the US is among one of several major military powers.
Since most Americans are to busy trying to feed their families, keep a roof of over their heads and that of their families, and trying to keep their jobs or businesses operational to properly analyze these things, I'd expect most of them to be misinformed. I would not expect those whose business is the defense of America to be misinformed. If they are misinformed and believe as the 59% apparently does, then POTUS, Congress, and their advisors stand to potentially receive some horrifically bad advice!!
As to whether "American pressure" would have caused the information to be removed, this seems unlikely as America has nothing it can realistically pressure France with and, while France is a nominal "ally" of America through NATO it primarily views America as a "strategic competitor" as do other EU nations. As such, France and its leaders would relish an opportunity to harm America as by weakening the strategic competitor their position is strengthened or so this is the thinking.
As to why the information was removed, I have the following theories. 1.)The "war games" revealed vulnerabilities in American aircraft carriers that were previously unknown and the French discovered theirs have similar vulnerabilities and wished to mitigate any damage as to what an enemy or potential enemy could learn from this. 2.) By publishing this they sought to humiliate the Americans and their carrier crew. After all if an American nuclear submarine sunk French aircraft carrier in a war game, I find it unlikely the Americans would be publishing this. If we did, there'd be strong negative consequences. Someone within the French government thought better of this type of "rub it in" approach as they may need the "alliance" at some future date.
Finally, I'd tend to agree with the notion that in a war with Russia, China, or Iran the US would likely be looking at 11 strategic natural disasters with these things. I say likely because the only way to know for sure would be to get into a fight with them which I pray is avoided!! At best, 11 of these things would seem to be an improper use of resources for the primary threats to its security that America faces.
I apologize for the multiple posts. I'd be interested to know what they were "war gaming" off the coast of FL. The greatest threats to America are as follows: 1.)an all out nuclear attack by Russia, 2.)an attack by Islamic terrorists using multiple dirty bombs and suitcase nuclear weapons in multiple major metropolitan areas likely at the same time or in short sequence of each other, or 3.)an invasion of the American mainland by Russia, China, both of them or even more likely them and some combination of them and all or some of the BRICS.
While scenario 1 is the most dangerous, in terms of most likely to occur, 1 and 2 would most likely need to be reversed, however, given devastating effects of scenario 1 defending against this and developing a second strike capability should this occur needs to be the top priority of American military planners.
All foreign policy decisions made by America should take the biggest threats to our national security and the security of our people into account which are the above 3 greatest threats and it should be asked "does this policy help us or hinder us when defending against the major threats to us?"
As I said, I'd love to know what they were war gaming. Aircraft carriers likely have no utility when trying to prevent an Islamic terrorist attack and they'd have negative utility when faced with an all out Russian nuclear attack.
When trying to defend against a Russian or Chinese attack against the American mainland perhaps aircraft carriers might have some utility. In any event, Russia or China may try to use their aircraft carriers ins such an attack and it'd be helpful to practice learning how to sink them!! Hopefully that's what they were practicing. As a member of NATO, France would be required by treaty to come to our assistance if we are attacked.
"And how will the US Navy counter a threat like that in the future? By doing nothing and hope it all goes away!"
They were working on an anti-torpedo torpedo a generation ago.
http://defensetech.org/2013/10/28/navy-deploying-new-anti-torpedo-technology/
http://news.usni.org/2013/06/20/navy-develops-torpedo-killing-torpedo
Hopefully, computer hardware and software along with lasers and rails guns have evolved to the point where one does not have to fear a fucking Silkworm missile with less than 11 miles to go.
They carry something like a 1 ton warhead. I have seen what smaller tomahawks have done to destroyers. It basically gutted the superstructure.
So if you extrapolate what Silkworm could do from a Tomahawk and count from frame A to frame Z on a ship what it would tear up, what was there & who would be there, one is not blithely going along in ignorance.
Assassinating 100 war mongers at the apex of a government is so much moral to me than feeding in thousands or hundreds of thousands of young men. All the so called moralists can GTH. things is they have never been on the fringes of Hell. They have no clue what they are talking about. It is hard to see Hell from a cafe unless it comes to visit.
Wow! The French military is just so capable! First they blast the F-22 out of the sky during war games and now one French sub. Sinks a US Navy Strike Group!
Wow! I feel so safe knowing the French military is out there protecting the free open shipping lanes in the China sea, keep Russian expansion at bay in Europe or assuring Europe's engery supplies flow freely out of the Persian Gulf!!! Yes indeed! Tahnk you France!
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