Tuesday, June 19, 2018
The F-22 May Be The Best Fighter In The World, But The French Were Able To Shoot One Down (In A Training Exercise Of Course)
National Interest: America's F-22 Raptor Is the Best Fighter In the World (But France 'Shot' One Down)
Eight times during a two-week war game in Alaska, individual German Typhoons flew against single F-22s in basic fighter maneuvers meant to simulate close-range dogfights. “We were evenly matched,” German Maj. Marc Gruene told Combat Aircraft.
Past evidence seems to confirms that a French fighter pilot once “killed” an American F-22 Raptor stealth fighter in mock combat.
Although not unprecedented, the simulated shoot-down is still a big deal for a couple reasons.
For one, the Lockheed Martin-made F-22 is supposed to be the most fearsome warplane in history, a quarter-billion-dollar-per-plane technological marvel that flies higher and faster than its opponents while avoiding detection by radar. The Pentagon is counting on a tiny number of the pricey Raptors — slightly more than 180 — to ward off potentially much larger numbers of enemy planes for the foreseeable future. Every mock dogfight the F-22 loses undermines the Pentagon’s plans for air dominance.
Read more ....
WNU Editor: They probably blamed the F-22 pilot.
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6 comments:
"America's F-22 is the best fighter in tbe world." Such statements are articles of faith. Furthermore we don't know the terms of the military dtills either. There's also substantial evidence to support the claim that the Russian airforce was able to obtain a superior position over USAF planes nearly every time over the skies in Syria. In other words "the best fighter plane in the world" may be no match for the French and is probably no match for the Russians. When do we stop embracing nonsense and focusing our foreign and domestic policies on reality?
I've played Red Force in the service. You're supposed to die if the Blue Force does it's job right ( they die if they don't).
We have no idea what the ROE ( Rule of Engagement) were for the Red/Blue teams and so this is a meaningless article.
B Poster, the "Russia STRONG" clowns post an awful lot of unverifiable, masturbatory BS on the internet.
Anon,
You are correct that we do not know the rules of engagement for this simulation. On this we are in total agreement.
While the Russian claims are unverifiable, we can make inferences based upon common sense and observations. You may not be familiar with my posts on this. I will briefly summarize.
When the Russians engaged the Americans over Syria, they reported achieving a superior over the Americans "nearly every time." In America, "nearly every time" would mean at least 9 times in 10. While I can't be sure what Russian parlance is for this, at a minimum, we should be able to conclude "more often than not." Are the Russian claims correct? We cannot "know" without access to real time information. Again, make inferences based upon observations and common sense.
When confronted with this, the American response was rather drab and strained, like people trying to hide something or at the very least not wanting to discuss the situation. In contrast, the Russian response was very enthusiastic and, while the body language and enthusiasm could be faked, it'd be VERY difficult. Furthetmore the Russian pilots involved were awarded medals for their actions.
To award medals based on failure would be rather demoralizing as the recipients would know the truth. Furthermore issuing a drab response as our side did would not help morale if our side actually prevailed in these mock combat situations. Unfortunately some otherwise very smart commentators tried to explain this away by trying to say our side somehow allowed themselves to be placed in positions where the adversary could blow them out of the sky probably killing them should the adversary choose to do so!! To allow this would not only be extremely stupid but would kill morale probably beyond repair.
Hence the conclusion that the USAF was probably owned over the skies of Syria. I trust someone in the USAF is studying this trying to find out what went wrong so we can improve next time should we be in actual combat with Russia or another peer.
You accuse me of "masturbatory" and "clown." I rather resent such insults as my analysis is based upon a careful, serious, and sober analysis of the facts at hand. Admittedly it can be wrong. As I am always careful to point out, we can only "know" if we have access to information in real time from first hand sources which I don't have.
While I very much appreciate your service to our country, I suspect your service only consisted of "playing" a certain force and did not consist of actual combat or, if it did, you did not face a peer such as Russia or China. With that said I'm sure you were ready for actual combat had you been called to do so. Your service is very much appreciated!!
As stated, the idea that the F-22 is the best fighter in the world is an article of faith not supported by any actual empirical evidence. In fact, there appears to be substantial evidence to doubt such a claim. Essentially, while the claim could be correct, it would need to be proven before making such a definitive claim.
The Typhoon is a pretty good plane, i would love to see if a Swedish plane could take down a F22. Yet we are talking about dogfights, the F22 has supercruise and would just shoot BVR and blast off to rearm. I play alot of ace combat assault horizon and chasing someone whos not on your radar and can't be locked onto is hard, your flying blind performing maneuver after maneuver to keep on their tail for a gun/rocket kill. The question of the F22's effectiveness relies heavily on the strike rate of its air to air missiles, in a dogfight you just wait for them to get close, complete a cobra or high g turn then pedal to the metal and hope they loss sight of you long enough to get away. In a combat scenario i would expect airmen to refrain from dogfighting the F22, rather using their guns to take down bombers and surveillance.
Criticism of our stuff is a good thing: that's remind me the "good time" of the cold war when we always said that the USSR was better than us on almost every field. Bottom line the Congress put a lot of money for "catching up" and we discover at the end of the cold war that we was 30 years he-head of USSR. Bingo. I hope we are going to do the same thing.
The French aircraft and pilots are hardly second rate, why the surprise?
No one thinks the F22 is invincible and if it can ache e a 10 to 1 ratio then it's surpassed expectations against a modern adversary.
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