President Joe Biden flanked by Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III, left, and Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, at the White House in Washington, on Oct. 26, 2022. (Doug Mills/The New York Times)
New York Times: Top U.S. General Urges Diplomacy in Ukraine While Biden Advisers Resist
WASHINGTON — A disagreement has emerged at the highest levels of the United States government over whether to press Ukraine to seek a diplomatic end to its war with Russia, with America’s top general urging negotiations while other advisers to President Joe Biden argue that it is too soon.
Gen. Mark Milley, chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has made the case in internal meetings that the Ukrainians have achieved about as much as they could reasonably expect on the battlefield before winter sets in and so they should try to cement their gains at the bargaining table, according to officials informed about the discussions.
But other senior officials have resisted the idea, maintaining that neither side is ready to negotiate and that any pause in the fighting would only give President Vladimir Putin of Russia a chance to regroup.
While Biden’s advisers believe the war will likely be settled through negotiations eventually, officials said, they have concluded that the moment is not ripe and the United States should not be seen as pressuring the Ukrainians to hold back while they have momentum.
Read more ....
Update: Biden Admin Infighting On Ukraine Policy Goes Public (Zero Hedge)
WNU Editor: General Milley and the Pentagon is seeing what I am seeing, and it is grim:
(1) The Russian military ceding large swaths of territory without resisting, but exacting a lot of damage on advancing Ukrainian forces.
(2) The complete destruction of Ukraine's electrical/water/and communications infrastructure. Infrastructure that is vital for Ukraine's military to function.
(3) Ukrainian forces being systematically degraded, specifically in the Donbas.
(4) The build-up of a massive Russian army that everyone believes will be used in launching a major offensive during the winter months. An offensive force whose size has not been seen since the height of the Cold War..
My gut tells me that General Milley and his staff have crunched the numbers, and they are convinced that in the coming months Ukraine's military will not be able to stand-up to the Russian onslaught. That the only hope for Ukraine's military to survive as a viable force is to freeze the conflict right now.
Sadly. I do not think General Milley's recommendations will accepted. The Ukraine government is not interested in negotiations, and the civilians in the Biden administration want this war to continue, firmly convinced that the Pentagon's assessment is wrong.
The civilians may have a point. The Pentagon totally screwed it up in their assessment on how long the Afghan government would survive in 2021, so why not on Ukraine.
25 comments:
You said it yourself many times... a build up of at least 300,000 troops, fully backed with armor and artillery and air? I'd say it's time to negotiate.
That I'd not the same as 300k nato troops backed by armour and air .
This is a force with low morale , poor training , worse leadership and facing huge logistic issues.
"The Russian military ceding large swaths of territory without resisting, but exacting a lot of damage on advancing Ukrainian forces. "
The Russian ceded Kherson, when their lines of communication (LOC) or main supply route (MSR) were blown up. It means Russian troops were starving and not getting ammunition.
WHAT IS WORSE FOR THE RUSSIANS IS THAT THE PEOPLE OF LUHANSKA AND DONETSK DO NOT WANT THE RUSSIANS ANYMORE EITHER. IT SEEMS TO HOLD TRUE WHETHER THEY ARE ETHNIC RUSSIAN IOR UKRAINAIN.
I think the only way the Russian keep Crimea, when it is given to them, is by ballot box stuffing or by filling the Gulags.
If the Ukrainians have lost only 2 Polish artillery guns so far, I would figures the Russians will retreat more. the East bank of the DNIPRO will have its MSR interdicted.
"The Pentagon totally screwed it up in their assessment on how long the Afghan government would survive in 2021, so why not on Ukraine."
Did they? Accountants are not the only ones that keeps two sets of books.
I bet the Pentagon keeps 2 sets of books.
I bet the hybrids, who are part military scientists and part politician take the unvarnished, objective assessments and then rewrite them to suit the needs or desires of the Pelosis, Schumers and Obamas of the Washington Swamp.
People not get may not get promoted to Colonel and definitely do not get promoted to general unless congress likes their politics. People above O5 have to play a political game. This is known fact.
Having played such a game to get promoted, you do not think they would not tell the White House what they wanted to hear?
If a general told Biden behind closed doors that he plan was nuts, Biden would reply "No one fucks with a Biden!" and the general would be gone.
So about Afghanistan. Generals told Biden what he wanted to hear and thought to carry out orders and middle through.
Afghanistan worked like Vietnam. The US cut off air support. You can argue with a nasty, no good, lying son of bitch Democrat today and they will tell you that the Democrat control Congress did not cut off aid. Just merely throttled it and shut down air support.
The Afghan special forces in Herat that were low on ammo and surrounded might not have live with air support. But with it, they might have survived, If they didn't, enough hardened Taliban might have died to stop or slow an offensive, The next resistance the Taliban hit might have been stiffened of Ole Joe had not shut down the air support.
Oh and WNU mentioned the petrol situation that the ANA faced. Sure the Bidenites supported the ANA. Sure.
Two things
Ever notice that US trained forces generally suck. Panamanian, Iraqi, afgani, vietnamese etc. We suck at this task
Second DoD hates DoS. DoD wants a way out. They see the costs in bloof and Treasure. DoS is full of
ideological idiots who operate under a "we dont care who dies or how many" attitude.
No surprises here.
The Vietnamese held in 1972. The Vietnamese did not hold in 1975. The difference was congress, which cut aid. China and Russia did not cut aid to the north.
Iraq has disastrous results in 2014. the US under the feckless Obama and his dishonest SOFA negotiations had American troops leave in 2011.
As soon as the Americans left, Maliki went after VP Hashemi and installed corrupt politically reliable generals, who started ghost payrolling scams.
Iraq Prime Minister Tells Kurds to Hand Over Sunni Vice President
When the political generals flee in helicopters at the first sighting of ISIS leaving their understrength units (ghost payrolling) leaving their soldiers without leaders that is an indictment of the Iraqi political system and not American training.
Malika was an insecure man. If you had walked in his shoes, you would be too. Thus generals were picked for political reliability.
Panama look at the correlation of forces. Russians do that.
Ever notice how weak and dishonest you arguments are?
You intentionally bypass historical fact. The japs never gave up. Units in the field did not run away. Germans used Kampfgruppes. to re organize and fight: civilians, Luftwaffe troops and other units in time of need. No running away there.
So what about your gloriously professional "best we have ever seen" Panamanians , Iraqis and afganies and viets? They ran. All US trained and for long periods of time. They sucked. Now the 9th White Horse...well that's a different story...and guess what// that army based itself on Japanese training not US.
Its not about how many weapons you have, its about the will to fight. Many have fought against overwhelming odds with out throwing down their weapons and running away like US trained forces. .
You can say fighting spirit maybe the only hope the ukies have in face of over whelming Russian odds and I wish them luck.
The Iraqis had nerves of steel. I've heard from people, who would know. Given that you still
are not going to fight, if you are understrength and your leader flee.
It was already established in 1972 that the South Vietnamese stood. The difference between 72 and 75 was the comparative level of foreign support.
German soldiers and armed civilians shot German children rather than fight.
Lot of ebb and flow in the Battle for china, can't be any ebb without the Japanese retreating.
Lots of Japanese retreating at Khalkhin Gol
Japanese retreated down the whole length of Burma.
1223 you are boring, stupid little twit. Do you have a blue checkmark? You fit in with that crowd.
Yes the Japs retreated in areas, of course they did...most armies at some point retreat.
This is Not the same as running away or bugging out.
Nerves of steel? That is laughable. The Majority of Iraqis were corrupt, craven, lazy, and indifferent. This means their soldiers and Senior leaders who were ALL US trained from the War college on down. But you would not hear that from The US propaganda machine. And imaging the surprise when Mosel and western Iraq were taken by ISIS.
Viets? Yea sure, tell us about Lam Song 719 or the glorious defense of Danang and Saigon in 1975.
These guys suck
The US shares the blame.
The US never pulled out of Iraq in 2011. It still had the largest diplomatic staff in the world and the largest mil group assisting these dead weights.
I remember this in the early years. We had a ground up approach with embedded advisors and teams of regular US units to set the example. The problem there was no effort to instill a sense of obligation into these guys. We focussed on tactics, weapons and techniques. We should have focused on their mentality. But that was brushed off by higher. We saw the corruption, we saw the lack of willingness to fight or even complete day to day duties.
Yea those guys were bums. Now some of the Iraqi SF were pretty good. They still were not trusted due to the sunni /shia cultural divide.
Iraqi army soldiers took the Faw Peninsula from the Iranians. The Iranians were fanatical at times. You can't doo that if you are a bum.
That was under Sadam. Totally different situation and context.
This is the same crappy Russian Army that has lost 3 big battles. They are ready to collapse a la post Battle of Tannenburg. This will lead to a 1917 moment. The Ukrainians will overcome these challenges.
sons and grandson are not going to be much different
Is this the same idiot Milley who said he would call the Chinese if Trump/US attacked? He needs to be arrested for one. He his the dictator in Milley world in his head.
Tannenburg was made possible for two reason.
1) Idiot Russian generals: There was bad blood between two Russian generals that the Czar was unware of or did not address. Same for the Russian general staff. Literally what would of been a Russian victory became a German one due to one general not going to the aid of the army of another general.
2) The Germans intercepted Russian communications and had staff officer, who had witness the fight between the 2 Russian generals during 1904/1905.
You might argue that Tannenburg was a fluke,
Also there were a good Russian general, Brusilov.
Also Russian soldiers aren't dumb. They revolted around 1916 due to heavy losses. They do not like being used as cannon fodder. Putin and the other would do well to remember this.
Funny
How will the Ukrainians over come the challenges? Russian army is crappy? It seems it is about the same level as the skies and therefore an even match. The advantage the Russians have is time. You ever listen to what the editor say in his comments section? Putin and his governments support are at a all time high. Time will tell how this will roll, the ukies have about a 15% chance of winning this thing. They are now debt slaves of the west. they better hope the west does not tire. This is not tannenburg. The Russians have about an 85% chance of winning.
Here is how this is going to roll.
Russians launch massive counter attack. Kiev is completely destroyed. Losses are high on both sides. Russia takes the rest of Ukrainians coast to include Odessa. Odessa long prepping for the assault, is taken after it is obliterated like Dresden in WW2.
Russians only want to push to Dinpro river line and the coastal area. But there is a problem
US and nato enter the Ukraine under the auspices of a limited operation to protect Blah blah and head off a "humanitarian disaster."
Now somewhere in the Ukraine, Russian forces and Nato/US forces do not engage each other but are looking at each other from across the barb wire. All it takes is one wrong move.
This is what happens when you poke each other in the eye too many times, talk past each other and do not listen to what the other has to say. Combine this with politicians who look after a foreign power's interests over and instead of their own citizens.
End result; Ukies are bled out to serve the west. Their nations economy and infrastructure is in ruins. The oligarchs and "investors" return from the west again. It is like Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union. The Ukrainians get raped by the west.
Russia becomes a war economy and conflict focussed nation. West finds another nation to use for its own ends to weaken the Russians again.
At cottail parties western Elites bemoan the fact that they tried to tell the ukies xxx or yyy but it is all the ukies fault because they did not listen or did not try hard enough.
The elites never accept responsibility for anything and accountability, well that's for the common guy.
find another country have a color revolution and rinse and repeat.
Russian trolls out in force
Russian trolls can go fuck themselves.
Having relatives form Europe om the past 50 years and relatives from Asia in the last 30 years, as an American I don't want harm to come to any nation. ' But to hear trolls talk about it, Americans just want to prey on nations.
The Russian trolls should relieve themselves using a naval gun, because it is the only thing big enough
Russian trolls!! Of course! Its not about simple logic or historical analysis, its about being a troll.
You don't say what I want to hear, you are a troll.
You present facts that counter what I say, you are a troll.
You say things that go against the official nararative, you are a troll.
You refuse to follow my subject thread when I get out of context, you are a troll.
You use logic and points consistent with a systematic pattern of argumentation , you are a troll
You do not resort to the ad hominem attack, you are a troll,
Ok I understand : working from Herndon? Hanover? Tampa? Ft Gordon, Huacucha or Nellis? You fit the pattern, either that or you are one of the best copy cats I have seen. Not much pay as a GS3. But it fits the level of mental capacity.
oh now now Billy
Traitor
So you aren't really American?
It's so obvious
he is a yank.
Typical arrogant . probably a left wing nut job working for one of the agencies and drinking star bucks
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