War News Updates: Incredible Video Of A Kurdish Fighter Using A MANPAD To Shoot Down A Turkish Cobra Attack Helicopter

Saturday, May 14, 2016

Incredible Video Of A Kurdish Fighter Using A MANPAD To Shoot Down A Turkish Cobra Attack Helicopter

WNU Editor: Turkey is claiming that two helicopter pilots were killed, and the crash was due to a technical fault .... Turkey: 8 Soldiers Dead in Clash With PKK, Helicopter Crash (AP).

24 comments:

Anonymous said...: Come on Turkey; May 14, 2016 at 1:55 PM
B.Poster said...: The Kurds, now this might be someone worth actually fighting for. Unfortunately I don't think they have the depth to get this done. While I'm a romanticists at heart and have an affinity for hopeless causes assuming they are noble, even those generally would NOT be worth risking the lives of 300 million Americans and the survival of our country over. As for hopeless causes that are not noble or if there are significant questions about he nobility of such causes, the question of should we get involved should be answered with a resounding NO.

This brings us to the Kurds, if there ever was a hopeless cause, and their cause is likely hopeless this would be it. If there ever was a hopeless cause worth wading into this might well be it. Again, such things generally aren't worth the lives and security of 300 million Americans and there seems no discernible national interest here either.

We made some BIG mistakes in the past here by implying we would deliver things that we never really had the capability of delivering and the Kurds made some BIG mistakes by perhaps expecting such things. They should have applied the old adage "if it sounds to goo to be true it probably is" and perhaps this could have been avoided.

I can understand and empathize with the desire of the individual to involve himself/herself in a hopeless cause even placing their lives and lively hoods in grave peril for the cause they believe in, however, it would be unethical to risk the lives and lively hoods of others at risk for such things without their consent.

Alas, if there ever was a worthy and hopeless cause well worth getting involved in it might well be the Kurds. Even still the cause would be hopeless, at least from an American perspective. The best we could really hope to do would be to make some difference at the margins which will be insufficient to change the cause from hopeless to hopeful.

I'm sorry to be such a pessimist sometimes but the first step to addressing any challenge is to see it for what it really is and not what one wishes it to be. Once this is done, good outcomes become much more likely. Failing to do this generally leads nowhere good.; May 14, 2016 at 5:28 PM
Alex said...: Just my attempt at a joke, Jay! I'm so used to seeing videos of 'middle-eastern' combat which are filled with everyone screaming that over and over and over. C'mon guys, pay attention to what you are doing. Stop screaming that into the radio and get back to the battle lol; May 14, 2016 at 5:34 PM
fazman said...: Yeah alex evetyone knows they're not jihadists
They had the barrell pointed the right way for starters! Lol; May 14, 2016 at 6:35 PM
Jay Farquharson said...: They also smoked a Chinook:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZThGtBLeDuU

MoA notes that the probable source of the SA-18 MANPAD was the Fee Syrian Army selling on some of the SA-18's the Turkish Army supplied them last fall.

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/05/manpad-used-by-pkk-against-turkish-helicopter-may-have-come-from-rebels-in-syria.html#comments; May 14, 2016 at 7:48 PM
Jay Farquharson said...: It's the Turkish PKK doing the shooting, so the SA-18's would have to have crossed ISIS turf between the SAA holdings in Ildib, to the YPG in eastern Ildib, then be smuggled across more ISIS turf to Northern Iraq, past the peshmurga of the KDP, PUK, KIU, MC and KCP to the enclaves of the PPK, where it would have to be smuggled across the Turkish border.

To get it from the FSA, all the PKK would have to do, is drive down to Afrid with the cash, load them in the trunk, and drive home, never leaving Turkey, with little chance of running into checkpoints or cops.; May 14, 2016 at 9:18 PM
phill said...: If the Russians wanted to give them these missiles, they could have.

Your theory has Merit.; May 14, 2016 at 9:38 PM
Jay Farquharson said...: If the Russians wanted the PPK to have Manpads, they'd have given them SA-21's* not old model SA-18's, or better yet, Chinese FN-6's, ( which is what Quatar gave al Nusra).

SA-21's have many features to enable faster tracking, better kills, and are resistant to spoofing with flares ilor IR jamming pods.

Russia would still then have the "slight" problem of getting them into Turkey.

The funny thing is, if the source of the SA-18's was the FSA, the MIT would have recorded the serial numbers of the ones they bought from the Ukraine, before they transferred them, so, once they secure the crash sites, they will know exactly who "burned them",

Which could explain some of the shifts in Turkish support for some of the FSA groups since the Chinook shoot down.; May 14, 2016 at 10:17 PM
phill said...: The video wasn't long enough to show the helicopter crashing, it might have.

Either way the Turks have to operate differently now.....big win for the Kurds.; May 14, 2016 at 10:48 PM
Anonymous said...: Just curious, Jay may know this, do the Russians have access to Erbil, or could they make deliveries of hardware into Iraqi Kurdish areas? And if they got weapons into Erbil would the PKK have access to them, I'm not sure who's incharge of what in the Kurdish world.; May 14, 2016 at 11:04 PM
Jay Farquharson said...: The Chinook burned up in the air, Turkey admitted 8 dead, but blamed "mechanical problems",

The Apache had half it's tail blown off, Turkey admitted 2 dead, but blamed "mechanical problems". I guess having half your tail boom and rotor blown off by a MANPAD could be considered a "mechanical problem".

It's pretty clear both crashed, and did not manage a "controlled descent" into terrain.

Yup, for the Turk's now, there is no such thing as a routine patrol over Kurdish enclaves or Northern Iraq.; May 14, 2016 at 11:14 PM
War News Updates Editor said...: I concur Jay. This changes the dynamics of the Turkish - Kurd war significantly. It is also clear that the Kurds are getting weapons that can cause a great deal of damage. The next question that begs to be answered is .... who is the supplier.; May 14, 2016 at 11:19 PM
Jay Farquharson said...: The PUK and the PDK, which controll Irbil, are Turkish allies, that's how they smuggle Kurdish oil out. Both the PUK and the PDK arn't "fans" in the least of the PPK.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4; May 14, 2016 at 11:21 PM
phill said...: It was AH-1 Super Cobra, unless you're referring to a different incident.; May 14, 2016 at 11:47 PM
Jay Farquharson said...: You are right, Cobra not Apache.; May 14, 2016 at 11:54 PM
Stephen Davenport said...: It was a technical fault alright, it had a technical fault after being hit by a missile.; May 15, 2016 at 12:15 AM
Jay Farquharson said...: Can't wait to read the "accident report",

Tail and rotor failed to remain attached after MANPAD impact.

Recomendation: Have MFGR redesign tail structure so it stays attached after missile strike.; May 15, 2016 at 12:22 AM
B.Poster said...: Looks like a good day for the Kurds even if it changes nothing in the mid to long term. Good days are always good though.; May 15, 2016 at 12:26 AM
Jay Farquharson said...: Little victories add up.; May 15, 2016 at 12:29 AM
Anonymous said...: The Kurds are not the good guys just because they like Americans and aren't Jihadis. There aren't any good natives in that AOR. Backing the "romantic" side is still backing a wrong side even if it isn't the wrongest side.; May 15, 2016 at 6:50 AM
Unknown said...: The Russians could smuggle in Manpads to the Kurds from Iran.

Ir they could fly to Kurdish held territory in northern Syria and let the Kurds smuggle it in.

None says you have to use a car on roads with checkpoints.

You can use mules or hoof it yourself.; May 15, 2016 at 11:43 AM
Unknown said...: Little Victories do add up.; May 15, 2016 at 11:44 AM
B.Poster said...: This is very true. Little victories do add up. At some point, with enough "little victories" what seemed impossible becomes plausible, then it brcomes probable, and finally it becomes reality!!

While ultimate Kurdish dreams of a nation of their own are nowhere close to probable at this point, I doubt anyone would have expected them to still be standing today after Saddam attempted to massacre them at the end of Gulf War 1. This has been followed by the Turks attempting to annihilate them. Keep racking up "little victories!!" As with a nation, the same appliez to an individual little victories matter!!; May 16, 2016 at 12:08 AM
B.Poster said...: Anon,

"They like Americans and aren't Jihadis..." Actually you pretty well summed it up and wel stated a case for suppotting them.

In the world today, pretty much NO ONE likes Americans today. Most would celebrate our end. If someone is actually pro-American perhaps they are worthy of support.

You may not be aware of the adage "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." They are opposed to Jihadis as are we. Gic en America's dire straits, we can use al, the support we can get!!

With that said I generally agree with your assesnent or what seems to be your assenent that we shouldn't get involved. There's very little we can do to help and none of these Kurds are going to fight along side us when we are invaded or offer humanitarian assistance in the event the Russians decide to nuke hs or Islamic terrorists ddcide to detonate dirty bombs on our territory.

As for the Kurds, keep racking up little victories!! Maybe America can learn sonething from this.; May 16, 2016 at 12:27 AM