Pressure builds to remove the 1,500 symbols of the Confederacy located on US public lands https://t.co/ZL9lLQWz6e pic.twitter.com/1L0ywZXG3m— AFP news agency (@AFP) August 16, 2017
Washington Post: Baltimore hauls away four Confederate monuments after overnight removal
Crews removed Baltimore’s Confederate statues early Wednesday, days after the deadly unrest in Charlottesville instigated by white nationalists rallying to defend a downtown Confederate monument.
The quiet and sudden removal of four monuments, with little fanfare and no advance notice, marks an attempt by the city to avoid a long, bruising conflict that has embroiled Charlottesville and other communities rethinking how they honor figures who fought to preserve slavery.
Baltimore Mayor Catherine E. Pugh (D) announced Monday she was in talks with contractors to haul away the statues, and the city council approved a removal plan that night. Some activists had vowed to destroy the monuments before government could act.
Read more ....
WNU Editor: I will never forget what the mayor of the Chinese city of Quanzhou (Fujian, China) told me in 1988 on what he did during the Chinese Cultural revolution. During the Cultural Revolution Mao's cadres were destroying and obliterating China's history, and while the mayor was a minor official at the time he made the decision to save what was one of the city's most important historical buildings .... the Buddhist Kaiyuan Temple. They barricaded the doors and kept the mob out .... but if the mob had succeeded they would have destroyed one of the world's oldest and most unique Buddhist temples. The Taliban have also pursued this destruction of history .... the destruction of the Buddhas of Bamiyan are their legacy .... and it is now in the the Middle East .... with radical Islamists pushing for the obliteration of the region's history .... from wanting to destroy the pyramids in Egypt to the actual destruction of temples and shrines in Syria and Iraq. This is human nature at its worse .... finding offence with history, and responding to it by destroying it.
The U.S. is not immune to this desire to purge a part of its history .... at the moment the focus is on the history of the Confederacy. Tomorrow .... who knows what these activists will want .... but I do know that once they have succeeded they will not be satisfied and they will be looking at other targets. This is just the beginning .... and it is going to get even far more violent. Groups like Antifa are just as violent as neo-Nazis .... though some in the media are trying today to portray a different narrative.
A little bit of my own history .... after the fall of the Soviet Union I was part of a group that wanted Lenin's Mausoleum removed from the Red Square. There were debates and discussions .... and our point of view was rejected. But there was a compromise .... there would be no sugar-coating on Lenin's role in the rise of Communism, and its legacy. I am satisfied with that .... but we are now pushing to build a memorial to remember the victims of Communism on Red Square and/or adjacent to it. I do not know when this will happen .... but I am confident that with time we will be successful.
33 comments:
I think you mean Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest, Fred.
".... but I do know that once they have succeeded they will not be satisfied and they will be looking at other targets. This is just the beginning .... and it is going to get even far more violent."
You're right WNU. By not identifying Antifa for what it is, the media and politicians are only contributing to the problem. Antifa will be emboldened by this; those familar with Antifa's violent tactics will only have more resentment for the media and the left in general. Trump tried to point out that there were kooks on the left as well but was demonized for it.
Fred, are you familiar with Antifa's role in Berkley earlier in the year? How about at the inauguration? Or in Portland? They use violence and intimidation to accomplish their political goals...they are terrorists. Just because they beat up a few nazis doesn't make them ok...I hope that's not what you're implying.
Antifa is a group that supports violence against anyone who opposes them, or anyone they don't agree with. That doesn't sound like a group you want to stand behind or be associated with, but we'll just see how the media dresses them up as super heroes in the coming weeks, which we all know is coming.
Comparing the removal of confederate statues from public parks to the Cultural Revolution is silly and some high hyperbole.
The national park service alone, has 70 some parks, funded with federal dollars (some much for erasing history!), dealing with the Civil War. I've been to some and they are amazing resources and they ain't going anywhere. Not to mention the the tens of thousand of books, documentaries, movies and articles that have and been and are currently being produced about the war.
So history is told primarily through statues? Silly.
As for the dips#$t who brought up antifa, there is literally zero evidence to support that claim. Were you dropped on your head as a child? I presume most Trump voters were, including Trump himself.
Now WNU editor will probably call me a violent extremist for hurting your fi-fi's.
dear anon
I cited the NY Times on antifa. Now why you want to suggest that my mother dropped me on my head is perhaps a reflection on your parents' inability to grow a decent human
I don't for a moment think nor suggest that books etc be destroyed. After all, the great Burns documentary on the Civil War is in itself a solid piece of art and it is after all history that needs to be preserved. I will leave book burning to others...I will note this, however: it is but recently that many from a Southern heritage have begun to accept the fact that the war between the states (civil war) was caused by and fought over the issue of slavery. Till fairly recent times, states rights were ususlly cited as the cause of the war, and even so great a writer, a Yankee from our earliest days, Edmund Wilson, in his Civil War book called PATRIOTIC GORE, was somewhat sympathetic to the South's right to leave the union if it so chose, noting that Lincoln made it abundently clear that no state then and thereafter would have that right.
I think he is referring to me Fred.
I hope so. I am very tender in my old age and easily upset. Fortunately, my state has made weed legal and I have a dispensation for my delicate sensitivities, so I am entitled to the stuff. There was a time when remaining anon often cloaked the identity of those posting bad stuff about others. Now, though, even using a real name still does not prevent verbal abuse. But then a recent study showed the huge jump in the use of dirty words in scholarly works, so it seems nastiness is a viral thing, the language bubonic plague of the surly
LOL
I just hide in my closet.
WNUE
Are you f'ing kidding me...comparing Confederate statues to Buddhist statues?
What happened in Charlottesville was not about a statue...that was about support for the creation of a "white nation".
And you say these so-called Antifa groups are just as violent as Neo-Nazis are...? How would you know? How many Neo-Nazis have you had the pleasure of hanging around with? How about anarchists? Does all of your opinion on the matter come from the media? This might come as a surprise to you, but Nazism will not be cooed or wooed with smooth talk and sit-ins.
LMFAO,
These are not "historic monuments", they are a 1920's onwards campaign to White wash Treason in Defence of Slavery, and were erected as part of a stochastic terrorism campaign against African Americans in the wake of Jim Crow laws.
The Raleigh statue shattered when it struck the lawn, because it was a cheap, thin walled, weak bronze, mass produced and available by mail order.
The erection of many of these statues, was often celebrated, with local lynchings and White Riots in the African American parts of town.
They are part of the history of "Sundown Towns", no "n****** or dogs allowed", Town lynching picnics and postcards, the taking of body parts from the lynched as souveniers,
And rather than expose the racism and brutality, they celebrate it.
There's a reason why in Charrlottesville, every African American on the way to Court had to pass a statue of the author of Dread Scott, or Bedford Forrest on the way to City Hall.
Attempts have been made in the past, to add plaques putting the statues erections, and the statues themselves into historic context, such as adding the Fort Pillow Massacer, the Founding of the KKK, the lynchings to Bedford Forrest statues, but the same Nazi hangers on either riot, or destroy the plaques, just as they do, every 3 months, the Emmitt Till plaque, which actually records history,
Not some fictionalized, sanitized, bothsiderist , States Rights, Taxes alt history defence of Treason in Defence of Slavery,
When a plaque goes up at Arlington, noting that the US Servicemen, Politicians and Presidents buried with in, served the USA, not the CSA, and are interred on the hallowed ground seized from the brutal Slaver and Traitor in Defence of Slavery, Robert E Lee, for that express purpose,
Then you will start to see actual "historic" monuments going up.
Robert E Lee was not fighting for slavery.
He would have fought on any side of the war. It all depended on which side his state came down on.
If Virginia had stayed in the Union, Lee would have fought for the Union.
Lee also told the idiot Jefferson Davis that the CSA would have no part in an insurgency; that it was over.
I thought Confederados were a made up term for the series Westworld.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederados
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americana,_S%C3%A3o_Paulo
The longer the Left stirs crap up, the longer it will last.
Take a look at the Confederados. I saw a cute one. She was a cinnamon girl.
Handled correctly this would go away quickly. It would be handled in such a way as to add not subtract. to make syncretic.
but we have too many dumb ____ stirring ___ up like people form Canaduh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roB7FAD7KDI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roB7FAD7KDI
Confederados 6 generations later
:)
But that racist Fred Lapides would not find a cinnamon girl interesting. He only like white meat.
"The early Confederados continued many elements of American culture, for instance, establishing the first Baptist churches in Brazil. In a change from the South, the Confederados also educated slaves and black freedmen in their new schools.[2] A few newly freed slaves in the United States emigrated alongside their Confederate counterparts and in some cases with their previous owners. One such former slave, Steve Watson, became the administrator of the sawmill of his former owner, Judge Dyer of Texas. When Dyer returned to the US, due to homesickness and financial failure, Dyer deeded his remaining property, the sawmill and 12 acres, to Watson. In the area of the Juquia valley there are many Brazilian families with the surname Vassão, the Portuguese pronunciation of Watson"
LMAO @ all the ignorant, challenged Leftists
Maybe England will pull down the Bomber Harris statue, long overdue.
Seriously this is just yet another implementation of victors justice.
The CSA was not victorious, so they did not have victor's justice.
One could argue that the military wing of the Democrat Party and the Democrats had victory.
I have seen the Confederate 'Battle' flag done up in black, green & yellow.
The 'Stars & Bars' is not the flag of the Confederacy. It was their battle flag.
The flag was used to prevent friendly fire incidents.
Blacks did fight for the confederacy.
Pro-slavery writers said that if they had volunteer units of black soldiers fighting for the confederacy that they would have to rethink their world view. <- This should be taught in school.
Matthew Dupuis
I know about Nazis, National Socialism, and who and what they are far more than you can ever imagine. I do not need to be lectured on how evil they are.
As for Antifata .... this BBC's report pegs who and what they are.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831
LMFAO,
https://www.civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/529038/
Let’s review a few basic facts:
Robert E. Lee was a white supremacist. As Adam Serwer puts it, [w]hite supremacy does not “violate” Lee’s “most fundamental convictions.” White supremacy was one of Lee’s most fundamental convictions.”
Robert E. Lee was a cruel slaveowner who broke up the families of his slaves and brutally tortured escapees.
Lee, who could have chosen to remain loyal to the United States, chose instead to be a prominent military leader of a treasonous movement dedicated to the preservation of chattel slavery.
Are you “sure” that Lee would have been appalled by white supremacist goons marching in Virginia? I am quite sure he would have celebrated them. I must concede, however, that Lee — while he willingly joined a cause with significant ideological overlap — was technically not Nazi. Or Maoist. Or a supporter of Francisco Franco. Or a member of Nickleback.
Once again Jay Farq lies.
Big surprise
Robert E. Lee believed that whites were superior to blacks? well so did Abraham Lincoln.
chancer are that the troll Jay Farq would have believed the same. I find Jay of middling or dull intelligence and of poor morals. Given that Jay if born in the in the early to mid 19th century would have believed he was superior to blacks. There it is.
"Mary Lee also had trouble transitioning from being a rich man's daughter to having to manage a household with only one or two slaves."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee
"In 1857, his father-in-law George Washington Parke Custis died, creating a serious crisis when Lee took on the burden of executing the will. Custis's will encompassed vast landholdings and hundreds of slaves balanced against massive debts, and required Custis's former slaves "to be emancipated by my executors in such manner as to my executors may seem most expedient and proper, the said emancipation to be accomplished in not exceeding five years from the time of my decease."[51] The estate was in disarray, and the plantations had been poorly managed and were losing money.
Lee tried to hire an overseer to handle the plantation in his absence, writing to his cousin, "I wish to get an energetic honest farmer, who while he will be considerate & kind to the negroes, will be firm & make them do their duty."[52] But Lee failed to find a man for the job, and had to take a two-year leave of absence from the army in order to run the plantation himself. He found the experience frustrating, since many of the slaves had been given to understand that they were to be made free as soon as Custis died, and protested angrily at the delay.[53] In May 1858, Lee wrote to his son Rooney, "I have had some trouble with some of the people. Reuben, Parks & Edward, in the beginning of the previous week, rebelled against my authority—refused to obey my orders, & said they were as free as I was, etc., etc.—I succeeded in capturing them & lodging them in jail. They resisted till overpowered & called upon the other people to rescue them."[52] Less than two months after they were sent to the Alexandria jail, Lee decided to remove these three men and three female house slaves from Arlington, and sent them under lock and key to the slave-trader William Overton Winston in Richmond, who was instructed to keep them in jail until he could find "good & responsible" slaveholders to work them until the end of the five-year period"
The South & Southern history are the newest targets - brought to you by the people of the same mindset who have removed The Almighty & the 10 Commandments from public places. Especially schools. They've been at this for decades, many have sounded the alarm against those who wish to erase U.S. History. These are the same people of the mindset who are still not satisfied with same-sex marriage - they ARE coming after the CHILDREN and are, at this writing, trying to legally make pedophilia into a "disorder" while simultaneously introducing sexually explicit materials to kindergartners (no, I'm not kidding). The leftists in America will never be satisfied. Ever! At least we still have coins from the New Orleans mint. They'll be the very last vestige of the South left...
And once again, alt-Nazi, pro-Slavery, racist shitbag Anzino Smith turns to selectively edited alt-History, to try to justify his lies,
LMFAO, Lee had a simple choice, Treason in Defence of Slavery, or fighting for the USA,
Like Anzino, he chose treason,
Unlike Anzino, Lee fought, killed tens of thousands of Americans, and sent thousands of free American's into the chains of slavery,
Anzino just lies in defence of treason on line, he'd never actually serve in any manner,
Temperary bone spurs, doncha know.
Once upon a time, American's fought Nazi's and Slavers, but here we are, 2017, and your are sucking Nazi and slaver's cocks, and praising their deliberate murder of actual real American's, while their jism drips down your face,
LMFAO,
No wonder America's so fucked,
Member's of Trump's Business panels quit over his pro-Nazi support,
None of his evangelical Christain Council did,
None of his Cabinet did,
No Republican's have,
Funny that,
CEO's of predatory Capitalistic Corporations have higher standards than Evangellicals and Rethuglicans.
LMFAO
LMFAO,
Antifia Baltimore has deployed black "dye packs", ( similar to lose used in banks) in advance of the alt-Reight protests promised by the Nazi's.
( doesn't wash off for three months),
Now Vanguard, the KKK, the Proud Boy's, the III%, are all cancelling,
They are afraid the cops will murder them for "driving while black",
LMFAO,
Watch a big tough "stormtrooper", laugh about killing Americans and beating children and clergy,
Then cry, when he realizes there's a warrant out on his ass, and he's going to go to jail,
https://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/341781/christopher-cantwell-vice-charlottesville-nazi-crying-video/
Two of the peaceful victims of the alt-Reicht, have launced a $3 millikn dollar lawsuit against the alt reicht involved, don't worry, your fav, Daily Stormer will be fine, they fled to Russia,
30 more victims and families have yet to sue,
Faux News and Daily Caller will probably get added, along with Instapundit, ( the Stupidest Man on the Web), after promoting instructionables on how to run down protestors with a vehicle,
https://amp.cnn.com/money/2017/08/15/media/daily-caller-fox-news-video-car-crashing-liberal-protesters/index.html
Apparently, rageaholic snowflake beta cuck 'Murkin's are big fans of ISIS,
Vanilla ISIS,
Or are they Y'all Quida?
Fucking Nazi's.
Thank you Jay, for your understanding of this situation. Next thing you know they'll be calling the soldiers who stormed Normandy alt-left anti-fa and criticizing them for not getting the proper permits from France to counter-protest. That f()$& face people call the American president is going to say there were some very fine people camped on the beaches of Normandy when the very, very violent protesters came to harass them, swinging clubs and brandishing machine guns and naval artillery.
WNEU
Your comment was equivocating...
I agree with "Ropestuff" - Using your logic, by saying that "Antifa" is just as violent , or more so, as Neo-Nazis, you are saying that the Allies (American and Russian) were just as wrong as the German Nazis...
This modern movement has nothing to do with "Southern Culture" or the preservation of history. By believing that you are playing into their false narrative. Those Neo-Nazis at that march came from all over North America - Southern Culture is not their motivation, the creation of a white only, Nazi nation is. That needs to be resisted by every freedom loving person. Equivocation plays into their hands; they are counting on it.
Amen
We need more cameras.
Jay's friends and cohorts will respond with more masks.
The driver of the car has been on psychiatric drugs in the past. That is documented. So can anyone be responsible for his actions?
Careful now, because every Muslim 'lone wolf' that kills people is said to be crazy.
If you condemn one you condemn the other. However, we know the left does not consistently apply rules.
With more cameras we can prosecute more Antifa beating on people.
Some day some antifa people are going to beat one someone and send them to the hospital with brain damage. it will be filmed. the injury will be documented. then when that victim becomes a victimizer what will a jackwagon shill like Jay say?
You know the immodest , lying Jay will say something. I can find news stories going back years of ANTifa bring weapons or hurting people who are not NAZIs or KKK. A dishonest person like Jay will not acknowledge it or give a quick response and then spam Guardian articles until the cows come home.
I proved 3 articles to Jay and that losers is mum. Yet today he is spewing Leftist talking points again. Sick, sick puppy
Matthew Dupuis.
Doing this blog for the past ten years has exposed me to many vets who have served their country. This includes some World War II vets. I can assure you of this .... they see Antifa and Neo-Nazis as one and the same.
Two weeks ago we buried a good friend of the family who served with a volunteer Polish unit that captured Monte Cassino during the Second World War .... he knew too well who the Nazis were and who they are today, but he also despised these extremist alt-left groups .... because he also knew who and what they are.
This is why I am not worried about the future of the U.S. (or for that matter Canada). The country is not represented by these extreme groups, nor does it represent those who are pushing the tragedy of Charlottesville to push their political agenda. On the contrary .... most people are like me .... we are disgusted with how the extreme right and the extreme left are exploiting the situation .... and we say a pox on both houses. But to insulate that I am saying that "the Allies (American and Russian) were just as wrong as the German Nazis" .... really!!!!!
Well .... you have just made my case.
"This is why I am not worried about the future of the U.S. (or for that matter Canada). The country is not represented ..., nor does it represent those who are pushing the tragedy of Charlottesville to push their political agenda" - WNU
There are a lot of clamorous Democrats, loud journalists(?) & timid Republicans, who are calling out Trump for calling out both sides.
They seems to be on the ascendant currently. A few weeks or a few months and it might boomerang on them. But it does not look good right now.
Living in the Puget Sound area, what I worry about is the radical Left not the radical right as far as numbers, the level of violence, or the amount of activity.
Matthew,
The U.S. is a nation of laws .... both good and bad.
And you have to have faith that these laws will punish those who abuse the law.
One must also have faith that the mass majority do not favour these extremist groups .... which fortunately most do not.
My father fought against the Nazis in the Second World War .... and he more than anyone that I know has/had a legitimate reason to be angry when these groups march and protest. But he more than anyone else knew that the U.S. (and Canada) is a nation of laws .... and one of them is that these groups do have a right to protest. He believed .... and so do I .... that by exposing these groups for who they are would only make the case on why they should be opposed even more easier. But when you become just like them where violence is the result .... well .... the focus is shifted away (as it has now), and the evil that should be revealed is lost in the noise.
Support for neo-nazis/KKK/etc. is probably a few hundred thousand. Same for Antifata/Never-Wall Street/Black-Lives Matter/etc. The mass majority of Americans do not sympathise with these groups .... and with time this disgust on who and what they are will only grow. I am also not worried that Confederate statues or neo-Nazi symbols are going to be springing up everywhere .... we live in a different world today .... it's not going to happen. Same with Nazi symbols being put up in Europe .... not going to happen. These extremist groups live in the past, and the only reason why they are receiving the over-the-top media attention today is because they serve a short-term political purpose. Nothing more .... nothing less.
As to saying that the left is not as violent as the right. I put a post tonight on the rise of Stalin monuments in Russia. Take it from me .... Stalin and his KGB goons make the Confederacy of the past and the KKK of today look like pikers in comparison.
WNEU
I hear what you are saying, and hope that you are right about much of it. But being from the geographical South and spending a lifetime in culture and industry that draws people from both ends of that spectrum I will tell you that I believe you are wrong on some things.
These groups are not living in the past; they are very focused on the future. The tools available today would have had Goebbels orgasmic with joy. I have watched tolerant, light hearted people slide into their grip...without even knowing it. Many of their supporters are unaware that they are, in fact, supporters. A few hundred thousand is no small number - especially if an environment is created that forces people into their camp. (like American politics of the 21st Century). It is the diminutive power of the "Antifa" groups that make them, IMHO, no major threat to Freedom; not so with White-Nationalists. And there seems to be a concerted effort to put anyone who disagrees with the President or is a member of the Democratic opposition into the "Antifa" camp. That is not accurate, or helpful...to anyone but Neo-Nazis.
Don't forget: Hitler, Napoleon, and Caesar (among others) all came to power by way of the "law". Legal does not equate "Moral" or "Just". I think you are wildly (and dangerously) underestimating the power and influence Neo-Nazis, the KKK, and other, similar groups have in the U.S.
I can't pretend to know what living in Stalinist Russia or Communist East Germany was like, but I can speak about the U.S. of today - NO, the radical left is not as violent (or has the capacity and capability of extreme violence) as the extreme right...in the U.S. - today.
You make a good point Matthew. Horrible monsters have come to power via through a legal and democratic process. That is why people like you must stay vigilant .... and quite frankly so does everyone else on this blog .... even when we our blood pressure raises. And yes .... we must refrain from labelling people Antifa and/or Nazis when we disagree with them .... the vast majority people are not. Just decent people who are in disagreement.
A point of contention here is whether or not we call anyone on the Nazi side decent people. I'm not going to call them neo-Nazis anymore because I think the neo part is irrelevant. Nazis came in many flavors during WWII, just like they do today, but at the core, if they throw a Roman salute they are Nazis. So now the question is, do Nazis really have a right to free assembly in the U.S? I say no. Why do Nazis not have the right to gather and protest in the U.S? Because of the Oath of Allegiance we are all sworn to. We are sworn to protect our nation from all enemies foreign and domestic, and to hold no allegiance to other governments or nations. These Nazis who owe allegiance to the Confederacy and Nazism are un-American at the core. They support past overthrown governments. They hold a swastika in one hand and the U.S flag in the other, and that is utter bunk. Do they support a failed fascist state or the U.S? A person can't honestly choose both. As to the Confederacy, the Confederates were specifically against the Union, the very backbone of the United States. So as I see it, those waving swastikas and the battle flag of Virginia are not Americans, they are traitors. And ask yourself this, would the soldiers who fought and died against Nazis in Europe fight for Nazis to have the rights of assembly and freedom in the US when they were killing them across the ocean to keep them out of America? Only the sympathizers I'd wager. Not every American soldier in WWII was there voluntarily, so its fair to say there are some American veterans who fought because they had to but wouldn't oppose Nazis here in the U.S. today. If they support the right of Nazis to gather in the U.S, it isn't because they support blanket free speech, it's because they are Nazi sympathizers at their core and use the freedom of speech argument to defend their views. Americans of all kinds get to speak freely and gather, I'm just saying that as soon as a person pulls on the cloak of Nazism they cease to be Americans.
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