FOX News: Russians already meddling in US midterms, Tillerson says
EXCLUSIVE – Secretary of State Rex Tillerson on Tuesday warned the United States is ill-prepared to prevent Russian interference in the upcoming midterms, as it was in the 2016 general election.
“I don't know that I would say we are better prepared, because the Russians will adapt as well,” Tillerson said in an exclusive interview with Fox News in Bogota, Colombia. “The point is, if it's their intention to interfere, they are going to find ways to do that. We can take steps we can take but this is something that, once they decide they are going to do it, it's very difficult to preempt it.”
Russia is already attempting to interfere “in the U.S. in 2018” ahead of congressional midterm elections as it did in the 2016 general election, he said.
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WNU Editor: I wish they provided some evidence on how the Russians are interfering in U.S. Congressional elections without just making a blanket statement and expecting us to believe him.
More News On U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson Claiming That Russia Is Already Interfering In US Midterm Congressional Elections
Russia already meddling in U.S. midterm elections, Tillerson says -- USA Today
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson: Russia is already trying to interfere in US midterm congressional elections -- CNBC
Tillerson warns US is vulnerable to Russian meddling ahead of midterms -- CNN
Tillerson Says Russia Is Trying to Interfere in 2018 Midterms Already, and It's Hard for the US to Stop It Happening -- Newsweek
Rex Tillerson: US can't 'pre-empt' Russian interference in 2018 -- Washington Examiner
15 comments:
What is meant here by "interfering"?
There is no "evidence" of such interfering because it did not happen and is not happening. If it were happening and there were evidence we would have seen it by now. Given the number of errors the US government has made in intelligence analysis over the years, it would be wise for anyone to treat anything they tell us with a healthy degree of skepticism. POTUS or any other US leader would be unwise to rely on anything provided by US (un)intelligence as a primary source. US (un)intelligence may be useful to corroborate as a third source provided by more reliable and competent sources. I would not even rely on it as a secondary source.
Mr. Tillerson was the one who negotiated the $500,000,000,000 oil deal between Exxon Mobil and Russia? This would have been a great deal for both countries. Unfortunately some petty fools have chosen to undermine this and essentially destroy it. Now this deal will go to someone else, if it has not already. Mr. Tillerson should be beyond livid at the actions of the United States government on this yet he now spouts the same ridiculous nonsense that has been spouted for months.
It causes me to wonder just who is being blackmailed here. Is he being blackmailed into spouting such nonsense? Is there truly something in the water in DC that makes people who were sane before arriving insane? In any event, the sudden 180 degree turn here on the part of the Sec of State makes no sense otherwise.
At a minimum, the editor comment is spot on. They need to provide EVIDENCE of this. Furthermore we need to know which candidates the Russians are attempting to help, how exactly they are going about this, when they are doing it, and where they are doing it. Additionally, these are very serious accusations that are exacerbating Cold War 2 and have undercut a very delicate and meticulous diplomatic process that had a reasonable chance to bear fruit. As such, given the extreme nature of this situation all sources and methods used to determine this need to be revealed, the intelligence officers who determined this need to be made public, and all of their personal details need to be made public. The American people need to be able to thoroughly evaluate all of this evidence. Before we go further down the road of the very dangerous situation of a new Cold War all we need to know why we need to fight a war we lack the resources to fight and cannot afford. Essentially this would be a fight to the death.
Essentially as Winston Churchill once pointed out there comes a time when defeat is inevitable but the prospect of surrender is so unpalatable that fighting to the death is the only option. I find no evidence that Russia wishes to enslave us. Of course if we continue going out of our way to meddle in their affairs they may lose patience with us!! Of course we may win!! In any event, we don't need this!! Substantial evidence needs to be provided.
I think they cannot provide such evidence either because it does not exist or it is of the flimsy nature that rep Schiff fell for. Unfortunately the "analysis" provided by rep Schiff is comparable to analysis provided by the incompetent boobs and political hacks that comprise US (un)intelligence. Perhaps Mr. Tillerson is relying on what these (un)intelligence sources are telling him. Very respectfully, if so, such faith is unwarranted. See Iraq among other examples.
Hacking voter databases, hacking voting machines, phishing attacks on Government, Campaign and Party databases, funnelling millions into 3rd Party PAC's for "single issue" campaigns, running disinfo ops through their 3 Party Chains to assets and the ususal "useful idiots", having the "troll farm" dominate social media platforms.
Jay,
Such things need to be proven. So far no real proof has been submitted except "trust us." I'm sorry, given the track record, they are going to need to be better than that. I had stated above what they might do to allay concerns. Perhaps then we could trust them.
Even if such meddling were to occur some might say this is blowback for serial meddling in Russian affairs by the US and the West that includes but is not limited to trying to undermine the current government. A response would likely be expected.
LMFAO
Don't worry, Meuller's gonna prove it,
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/bob-muellers-investigation-is-largerand-further-alongthan-you-think/amp
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/550925/
LMFAO
"Don't worry Meuller's going to prove it." It seems he could have done so by now. The tremendous distraction that this is causing is undermining our economic and security interests in ways that are incalculable. As the editor has long pointed out, its long past time for the evidence to be presented.
In any event, I find nothing funny about this. By these actions the US government has drawn us deeper into a new Cold War that we did no need, cannot afford, and lack the resources to prosecute. Best case scenario millions of Americans are going to die in this endeavor and we there is strong possibility we won't even win. Maybe you think this is funny because you hate Americans and have malice towards them. In any event, Canada will not bear the brunt of a Russian reprisal. This will be borne by Americans.
Essentially in my first post on this thread in paragraphs 4 through 6 I point out the kinds of proofs that will need to be supplied and why in its current form US Intelligence would not be considered a trustworthy source. Given their ideologies and general lack of basic reasoning skills, extreme skepticism should be taken with regards to trusting anything these people come up with.
Generally speaking witch hunts are directed against low level operatives, people that no one cares about, or those that no one cares about and lack the resources to mount an effective. As such, Americans could blithely believe that their justice system was honorable. Now that his being directed against a sitting President, if successful, people will no longer be able to blithely believe we have an honest justice system. Then perhaps necessary changes can be made.
POTUS has been even more unreasonable with regards to Russia than his predecessor. He has been very disappointing here. Doing that which is right in the face of stiff and unreasonable opposition is a mark of character. I have always been impressed by people who can do this. Few people have such character.
I should have more closely read my last post. When trying to multitask and having poor eyesight sometimes typos can and do happen. In any event, I am sure it is relatively easy to understand but I do apologize for the typos and will try and do better in the future.
About that detail on how the US knows that russia interferes.. People should read what Snowden actually revealed or at the very least see the Snowden documentary "Citizenfour": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenfour
Then you start to realize actually how much the US intelligence really sees, hears and knows on whats going on. If they don't know, they are going to find out very quick if they know where to search. All they need is a smartphone laptop. Even a closed network or intranet does not stop them either, just look at "Stuxnet": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet
People has to stop using most of today's electronics to be incognito, but that wont happen because people are lazy.
But if they start to presenting evidence they are giving up secrets on how they obtain the information and how big the information-net is.. So.. I'd say that they are going to continue to say stuff without presenting any evidence at all.
Hans,
The accusations are very serious and have exacerbated Cold War 2. If this continues, the best case scenario is millions of Americans die and maybe, just maybe we "win." This is the best possible outcome!! As such, if they are going to continue to "say stuff" the evidence will need to be presented even if that means giving up how they got such information. The stakes are simply to high. If Americans need to be slaughtered, all evidence including sources and methods that got us to this point will need to be presented and it better be crystal clear as to why this is worth it. Somehow I just don't think saving Hillary Clinton's political career or getting Donald Trump's proverbial scalp because someone did not like the outcome of the election is worth this.
Given the track record of US intelligence it seems highly likely they are not nearly as competent as Mr. Snowden may have led us to believe. This may be another reason evidence cannot be released. It may be as questionable as the so called Russian dossier and/or the duping of rep Schiff. Essentially investigations were launched and we embarked on this road based upon questionable evidence and now people must justify their actions.
I would also point out that it is one thing to gather information. It is another thing to actually analyze it properly. US intelligence generally seems to lack basic reasoning skills that most pre teens take for granted.
Also, there seems to be a part of "western" and American psyche that seems to think they are being monitored. Few of us will ever rise to the importance to be worth the time and effort to monitor. Perhaps some harbor such delusions of grandeur. Basically, as a general rule, YOU ARE NOT THAT IMPORTANT!!
As to Russian meddling, it seems highly unlikely America or Americans are important enough for them to spend much time worrying about them. Do they want the sanctions lifted? Eventually geo-political realities are going to mean the lifting of these sanctions any way. All they have to do is wait it out anywhere from six months to perhaps another year or so until those attempting to enforce the sanctions either are forced to drop them outright or de facto drop them. In the meantime, they are easily beaten.
Furthermore they drive the Russian people into even closer into the arms of the leadership and allow the leadership a freehand to engage in any foreign intervention they wish. Simply blame the situation on a foreign devil, in this case the Americans. If one really wanted to undermine the Russian leadership, it seems a good place to start would be by eliminating the sanctions.
Of course after incessant meddling on the part of the Americans and the "west" perhaps the Russians may have intervened out of spite or to get even. With that said the Russian leadership seems far to serious and circumspect to act in such a manner. After all the sanctions are not going to be able to held together indefinitely and the sanctions help their position. We've gotten ourselves into a deep hole on this. When in a hole, the best course of action is to stop digging.
I would also add that had American Intelligence managed to catch Russia trying to interfere in our elections for whatever reason (a blind squirrel does catch a nut every once in awhile) this all could have been handled quietly via back channels whereby it is explained to the Russians that we know what you did, how you did, who did it, where you did it, and when you did it. We might have had a chance to defuse tensions and come to a reasonable settlement and they could have kept their precious "sources and methods" secret. I'm pretty sure in diplomacy this kind of thing is done all of the time. It's called statesmanship and placing the interests of the nation above one's on petty interests.
By acting as they have this means that in order to justify an exacerbation of Cold War 2 and the dangers that this entails they are going to have to reveal their sources and methods as we need to be absolutely certain of what we are getting into and the reasons behind it need to be abundantly clear. Additionally, these people don't have the greatest track record. This is even more reason to flash a "caution light."
It's pretty ignorant to think that russia and others dont "meddle" in US affairs in some extent. They have everything to gain when the US internal stability is in chaos and everything to lose when the US is stable and focused.
With that said its also pretty ignorant to credit russia and others for results in elections. That talk is for the losers from the other side of an election, blaming everyone but themselves. Today's politicians and their fans cant accept defeat. So, russia is pretty handy to have when they want to blame someone. Even here in Sweden. Its all about a "straw man." And its pretty obvious.
Hans,
Your last paragraph is spot on. I couldn't agree more. There's little to nothing I can add to it. I find it interesting you mention that the "straw man" factors in Sweden. We have these here in America as well. Most of the people I know well as well as a vast majority of the people in the area where I live in TX in one of the "reddest of the red" areas see through this blatant attempt to cast the blame on Russia as the falsehood it is.
Now for the first paragraph. "Its pretty ignorant to think that Russia and others don't "meddle" in US affairs in some extent." This is very likely true. After all the US has been known to "meddle" in the affairs of others. As such, some kind of "blowback" would be hardly surprising. With that said I suspect all nations "meddle" in the affairs of others to an extent where and when they think they may be able to gain an advantage.
"They have everything to gain when the US internal stability is in chaos and everything to lose when the US is stable and focused." If one wants to be able to successfully challenge Russia without significant downside risks to themselves, it is going to take far more than "stability and focus." Russia is a VERY tough country every bit as tough as America and in many ways tougher. A stable and focused US is going to be much easier to deal with, to make deals with, and to find common ground with. As such, it is not going to serve their interests to try and destabilize it.
A stable and focused US would not have stupidly inserted itself into Ukraine or interfered with Russia in Syria just to name two stupid actions our leaders have undertaken in recent years. Actually the list is long but this is just two of them.
As for a lack of "stability and focus," why has the property of the Russian diplomats that BHO seized in a temper tantrum because he didn't like the results of the elections not been returned or the diplomats and the Russian government compensated in accordance with the taking of the property? Those who are "stable and focused" don't do such things. As such, I think a strong case could be made that Russia and other major powers do better when America is "stable and focused."
America is hardly an indispensable nation that a major power would waste a great deal of time and energy on its internal affairs unless it interferes in its affairs in such a manner as to invite blowback. This is another reason why DJT got elected. He has refrained from the America as "superpower," "indispensable," or "exceptional" nonsense. Frankly, its BS and Americans find it extremely insulting. When HRC used such terms, it was like "nails on a chalkboard" and turned many off.
Suggestion: while there will be a number of disagreements with Russia (and other major powers like China) that perhaps cannot be resolved in the near to mid term and there may well be areas where our interests are simply are not compatible, respect them, at a minimum treat them as equals in some areas, acknowledge their clear superiority in others, and don't try and "punch above your weight" like some stupid drunken brawler or a seventh grade boy who is "to stupid to understand that he is stupid" Acting in such a manner are the very acts of "focus and stability." Additionally, jumping in n the side of the corrupt chump government of Ukraine during the coup without even understanding who we were/are supporting is not an act of "focus and stability." This is like something a teenage girl does when her throbs over a boy she is chasing!!
Yes and no,
Some evidence would never be presented in public, or even to elected officials, because it exposes sources, methods and assets. That's why the Israeli's have stopped talking to Trump Admin, 5Eye's have changed all their colour protocols, the DGSE has stopped sharing hacking info and even the US Intelligence Agencies are reviewing what actual information is shared with the House, Administration and Congress.
Some information, given all the hacking, cracking, routing, sourcecode, will only be presented to the House, Senate and Grand Jury in the form of generalized graphs, charts and pathways, because grinding down into the detail like Emptywheel does, would kill those groups from bordom and kill weeks of their time.
Some of the testimony to the House and Senate Committies could be conducted in public, like with the Church Commitee, Watergate, Whitewater, Memogate, Travelgate, Benghazi, and Emails, but Devin Nunes,(R), Mike Conoway, (R), Peter King,(R), Frank LoBiondo,(R), Rick Crawford, (R), Trey Goudy,(R), Tom Roony, (R), Will Hurd, (R), Illianna Ros-Lehtenin,(R), Mike Turner, (R), Brad Wenstrup, (R), Chris Stewart, (R) and Elsie Stefianuk, (R) voted to keep almost all of the House Proceedings secret.
Republicans on the Senate Commitee have done the same.
Meuller on the other hand, is running several Criminal Investigations, along with at least 2 CounterIntelligenge Investigations. Other than self serving leaks, ( Team Trump trying to throw other members of Team Trump under the bus, Team Trump trying to taint the investigation), all we've gotten from Meuller is five highly redacted inditements ,(Flynn, Manifort, Gates, Page and Panidoppolus) and two very redacted Guilty Pleas, (Flynn and Pannidoppolus). Rumour is, Gates will be pleading guilty soon, as his Defence Lawyers have had their motion to be removed from the case, approved in Court.
In cases like this, "little fish" get to "plead out" to lesser charges, in exchange for testimony and evidence against "bigger fish". The Prosecutor however, holds more "serious charges" in the bag, against the "cooperating witnesses" to ensure their cooperation. So aside from the "little things" revealed when the cooperating witnesses take plea deals, Meuller's evidence is going to be held close, until there are trials.
Unlike the House and Senate, who are trying to "try the case in the Court of Public Opinion", Meuller's prepping for several actual Court Cases.
Funny, the Corporate world spends hundreds of billions on microtargetted influencing operations. They seem to think it generates trillions of dollars in sales.
Microtargetting has only recently been used in disinformation campaigns and influencing operations.
It has very limited ability in North Korea, Iran, China, Russia, Cuba, other places where Social Media is tightly controlled.
It has very little effect in places that have porportional voting.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
Given the severity of these accusations and the huge credibility problems the US government has, an exception to the general rules of how things are done will need to happen even if means the revealing of "sources and methods." Everything needs to be public. The stakes are simply to high. We continue on the current path the best csse scenario is 10s of millions of Americans die and maybe we "win." In order to support policies that exacerbate Cold War 2 as the Russia collusion narrative does, we need to be absolutely certain and without full disclosure such things simply cannot be supported.
As for micro targeting it can be used to influence a small group, enough to add to the bottom line of a company and increase shareholder value. I've used such techniques in my business operations and know they can be effective on a limited scale, however, it is unlikely to be able to change something as vast as an election for POTUS. Much proof would be needed as extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
As for the Mueller team, they've had enough time, vast resources to commit, and while this drags on irreparable damage is being done to America's interests. Already a very careful and meticulous diplomatic effort has been derailed. It's way past timevto wrap this up. At this rate, we'll be able to destroy anyone. Just give the prosecutor infinite time and resources to "fish" for crimes against anyone. I suspect they need more time because they have nothing of substance and their entire self-image is built on finding something. As such, they can't stop.
As such, the sooner Congress or someone "pulls the plug" on this the better. Mr. Mueller and his team can be allowed to retire with dignity.
Then America can get back to focusing on what matters instead of going down rabbit holes like this. This is the kind of thing people and countries with "focus and stability" do. Besides we really aren't important enough that a foreign power would waste much time or resources trying to influence little ole us. In addition to a lack of focus and stability some also suffer from delusions of grandeur. Delusions of grandeur are among the most dangerous. Such people may feel entitled and even if it commits us to a new Cold War that will get 10s of millions of our people killed all for no good reason other than their egos. On top of this, actually winning is going to be problematic at best.
While insanity on the part of nany US leaders is expected, DJT has disappointed in this regard. Many had hoped he'd do more to end Cold War 2 than he has. Hopefully it's not to late to restore sanity to the US government.
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