A Ukrainian Leopard 2 tank and several Bradley fighting vehicles destroyed by the Russian forces in Russia’s Zaporozhye Region. © Telegram / Russia's Defense Ministry
DNYUZ/New York Times: As Ukraine Launches Counteroffensive, Definitions of ‘Success’ Vary
After months of anticipation, Ukraine’s forces — newly trained on complex warfare tactics and armed with billions of dollars in sophisticated Western weaponry — launched operations on multiple fronts in the past week in an effort to dislodge entrenched Russian military units, a counteroffensive that many officials in the United States and Europe say could be a turning point in the 15-month war.
Much rides on the outcome. There is little doubt the new military drive will influence discussions of future support for Ukraine as well as debates about how to guarantee its future. What remains unclear, though, is exactly what the United States, Europe and Ukraine view as a “successful” counteroffensive.
Read more ....
Update: NYT outlines what Ukrainian counteroffensive 'success' means in the West (RT)
WNU Editor: Before the launch of the counteroffensive early this week the expectation in Kyiv among my friends and contacts was that once Ukraine had launched their counteroffensive, Russian forces would do what they did in Kherson and Kharkiv last year. Withdraw their forces to safer and more defensible lines. In short .... their definition of success was Russian forces giving up the territory that they control in Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, including giving up the land bridge to Crimea.
Among the Ukraine government, their public definition of success was even more ambitious. The expectation was that by summer (i.e. a month from now) Ukraine forces would be in Crimea fighting Russian forces.
After a week of heavy fighting .... these expectations have evaporated.
After one week of heavy fighting that has claimed thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and the loss of countless tanks, armored vehicles, and other military vehicles, this is what Ukraine has to show for it's efforts .... Ukraine Retakes Villages in 'First Results' of Counterattack - Kyiv (Reuters). Capturing 3 small villages and advancing one kilometer in a few places after one week of fighting is not how I would define success.
A prediction.
If Ukraine does make sizeable gains in the coming 10 days so that they can show NATO before their Vilnius summit that they can succeed militarily against Russian forces, NATO's military leaders will publicly applaud Ukraine's efforts and call it a success, but privately say this was a failure (or worse).
15 comments:
Exactly...
It does not matter what the Ukrainians do., The BLOB narrative will be it was a "success"
Just like the Afghanistan withdraw... they claimed it to be a "success"
Look at Lybia. The country destroyed and Kadaffi killed in the streets and Hillary cackling on TV about we came we conquered.... that country is still a basket case today......But a "success"
So the Ukrainians could possibly get their entire army destroyed and it would be a "success".
Just wait and see the BS about the .......valiant defense and how against astronomical odds they fought...blah blah blah.
BTW I copied this, so if you erase it again I will just re post.
No disrespect... but what the fuck were they thinking??? 30,000 NATO trained troops eh? This is a full scale war. They don't have a force for a true offensive. And frankly.. western arrogance has caught up to them. They were praying for a miracle and in war that risk is very costly. Not only that... their intel is crap, or their analysis is even worse. Such a shame.
We shall see. A little history: US started the island campaign against Japan by penetrating and rolling up Japanese trenches from the rear. The Japanese adopted a "field of starfish" set of interlocking fortifications as a response. When 3F (fix them, flank them...) failed for US, then they flanked the Japanese in the dimension of time. Using high-intensity high-rotation unit deployments, they would switch units every 48 hours and grind the exhausted Japanese down. This requires skill to "pass the lines" repeatedly and take over a new sector of combat.
If the Russians do not have the skill to rotate their units quickly and repeatedly, they will be worn down and destroyed. Men will literally collapse from exhaustion. Are the Ukrainians this good? Are the Russians this bad? Time will tell.
5 bucks this "offensive" is an diversion.
When Russia had these failures in the first few months of the invasion that saw them fail time and time again, WNU and pro-putler fans made excuses after excuses as to why.
Now with Ukraine, the shoe is on the other foot and the commentary from those same people has been very telling.
Btw, seems i was wrong. Sweden will now comply with Turkey about joining NATO. If this is true, Sweden has bent itself over 14 times and broken our core values, just to join the bigboy club. I'm surprised.
Strumpetland. That is what this blog is. found a street corner and went to work.
About the picture the head painted lay waxes poetical about. Those disabled vehicles are just that. Disabled. Most will be recovered. a blown track from a mine is no big deal if you own the battlefield afterwards.
What I did not see is leopards burning bright with the turrets blown off as if they were some shittily designed and built Russian tank.
Someone pointed out the shitty welds of a newly produced and subsequently destroyed Russian tank. Expectations are that a production line which is well oiled and not running at a bare minimum trying to stay in the black will produce better and better quality, Usually. but I present to you the Russian example of that not always being the case.
Strumpetland. Indeed.
No not really. Did that happen in Ww1.
Or at Khe sahn combat base?
I do not know. But I do know this. If you are in a static defense and being re supplied you can last a long time under ugly conditions. 3rd SS Panzer demenyansk pocket
Thats right Mr GS 5 government employee.
. It is telling.
If you used common sence it is simple logic and economic tyranny.
A. Because Russia is bigger and since they were invading and not being invaded and since their economy was not being destroyed THEY HAD MORE TIME AND RESOURCES
B. The ukies do not have any of those advantages. This is thier 3rd army in the field. The other two have already been destroyed. Thier industrial capacity is about zero and they have become a leach on the west. They have a very corrupt government and alot of money and supplies never reach the front. And read that War on the Rocks article by the 2 US advisors.
An army of discombobulation
They screw this up. They are sunk.
No, not pro Putin. No, not pro russian. Just looking at the facts.
And the facts have NEVER looked good for the UKIES
You are a BLOB shrill. Working from a cubicle. Dump your ideological bent and open your eyes.
And you hit the main point on the head.
Who owns the battlefield afterwards.
Maybe those vehicles are now in a Russian warehouse being prepped for reverse engineering.
Who knows.
Yeah they can try go get them. Good luck 😂
My non-Christian, non-Caucasian spouse from a non-Democracy is from another world. When they get on the phone I do not know what they are saying, which is nothing new. I had a parent who spoke a foreign language so hearing non-English during a phoncon is situation normal.
I glean a lot.
So much was given away.
Grow a dick
I agree with Anon
Still gleaning intel
you still giving it
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