Advisor to Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, Yuri Lutsenko said that agreements reached at the NATO summit in Wales to supply advanced weapons to Ukraine from several countries, including the United States, France and Poland. © RIA Novosti. Grigory Vasilenko
Ukraine Crisis: 5 NATO Members To Send Weapons To Ukrainian Forces -- CBC/Reuters
Fragile ceasefire in country's east is on verge of collapse as fighting renews
A senior aide to Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko said on Sunday Kyiv had reached agreement during the NATO summit in Wales on the provision of weapons and military advisers from five member states of the alliance.
"At the NATO summit agreements were reached on the provision of military advisers and supplies of modern armaments from the United States, France, Italy, Poland and Norway," the aide, Yuri Lytsenko, said on his Facebook page.
He gave no further details and it was not immediately possible to confirm his statement. Poroshenko, whose armed forces are battling pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine, attended the two-day summit in Wales that ended on Friday.
Read more ....
Update: Poroshenko’s Aide Names NATO Countries That Agree to Supply Weapons to Kiev -- RIA Novosti
My Comment: The next question that needs to be answered is .... what will they be sending.
14 comments:
This should be breaking news....wonder how Putin will respond.
We will see how much equipment and vehicle will be sent to Ukraine (and with what price), but I'm sceptical. As I heard Italy would send 90 IVECO Panther, which is equal to nothing. If the other countries will select similar assets, this whole "we sending weapons" thing will worth nothing. I spent some time to monitor the Ukrainian Army, and they do have the means to win on the battlefield, but other aspects of the warfare are missing, like training, decision making, good planning and organising and so on. Also if these counties want something for these weapons, how would Ukraine pay? I think this step from the named countries are just a political message, without no, or only minimal effect on the battlefield. This would be different if these countries would send crews too for the weapons...
mlacix,
You are absolutely completely correct! It is nothing but words and Putin knows it.
As far as the Ukraine military is concerned your list is right on the money. I will add this, you cannot send, sell, or teach morale and the Urkaine army has none!
James what is your opinion on the military to the seperatists? Do they have morale and the means to win war, on long sight or will Kiev win in the end? Also i have read that there is confustion among the seperatists, are reading posts from Strelkov and others, they are torn between a ceasfire or a war, i think they will chose the last one since the ceasfire dosent acknowlage Novorussia as a state.
Rhaegar,
Some short answers to your questions:
" will Kiev win in the end?" No, not militarily.
"James what is your opinion on the military to the seperatists? Do they have morale and the means to win war, on long sight" No, not militarily in the long run, yes at the moment they have the morale and the momentum, but it is the most fragile type of morale and momentum you can have. Basically they have won the field, but it's now theirs to lose.
If you want to approach this in the sense of "what is the situation as it now exists" you have to answer several questions. And I want you to answer them to the best of your ability and knowledge.
List for me the things each separatist movement shares. Next list for me the things that separate them from each other.
I don't expect you to know all this (no one really does), but try your best.
They want independence or autonomy, this is is the major thing that seperates the different groups.
The DPR and LPR wants independence. These two groups are the main grups.
i am a bit confused about if Novorussia is these two groups combined or is the grassrot movment in Odessa and other cities in the east and is a indercover grup in other cities. Dont quote me on this i am a bit unsure.
The Russian ortodoxian army also want independence, but are split from the DPR and LPR because they dont follow their orders.
There is the Vostok battalion who is a military group of proffetionals, they are seperated from the other groups since they are a purly a miliary group that follows orders. They share with the other movments that they fight for independence.
The local partisan groups, who support the seperatists and are doing sabotage missions, they are not under controll of the seperatists but support them and want indpendence or autonomy.
Its a very bad list i know, but there is very little info avalible and i have yet to found a good list that have all the different movments, leaders, goals in one list, but if there is one i would be glad to read it. This is my list soo far, would be happy to get feedback James:).
Not bad, but try using fewer words. An example:
Things in common among separatists;
Language Russian
Ethnicity Russian
Political want autonomy or independence from Kiev
Religion
Things not in common;
Overarching political framework in existence or by tradition
See what I mean? Try to be minimal initially in description then flesh them out in later thought.
I trust that's confusing enough. I'll have more questions for you later.
Ok i shall try my best. Am not so
good at express myself in writing, its one of the disadvantages of being an autistic. But its easier when i get asked questions and then i can try to aswer them out of information and/or opinion.
Well the the best way to get better is to practice. Rhaegar you may be autistic, but from what I can tell there is nothing wrong with your ability to think. Expressing oneself, whether by talking or writing, can always be improved by practice.
I agree, thank you for your opinion:) i would gladely answer your questions about the seperatists, when will you ask them?
First step (a small one), when you use I it is always capitalized.
Alright, first question. Name, to the best of your ability the separatist groups. Don't describe them, just list them by name.
DPR
LPR
Nvorossiya
The Russian ortodoxan army.
The Vostok battalion.
The peoples army of the south east.
Bezlers seperatists group.
Good Rhaegar,
Now use that list and next to each one list who is in charge of it, at least as far as we know.
Example:
DPR: Sasha Dumbowitz or if not a person say "by committee".
This may seem slow and boring, but you'll start to understand before long.
DPR Prime Minister Aleksandr Zakharchenko, I think he is the one who is now the leader, he is one of the seperatists making announchments and are apparing on youtube videoes posted by the seperaitsts.
Minister of deffense, his nickname is "Tsar" he is the replacement for Strelkov.
Vladimir Kononov
LPR
by committee or Prime Minister Hennadiy Mykolaiovych Tsypkalov They have had several governments. He is from the third one.
Federal State of Novorossiya
President Valery Kaurov, I don't know anything about this guy.
Speaker of the Unity Parliament Oleg Tsaryov, he is an previus member of the Ukrainaian parlament, but was stripped of his immunity because he suported sepeartism.
The Russian ortodoxan army -by committee, i think this is a purly military group under command of eighter a leader that has not maked himself known, or is a millitia group under one od the peoples republics, but i doubt that since i read that most of the people in this grup are religius fanatics fighting for sepeartism and they will not stop. This may be wrong but its somthing to look into i thing, if only i had the information and had known a seperatist. They also seem to have bad relations to the Vostok battalion and there are some reports of clases between those two.
The Vostok battalion
Alexander Khodakovsky
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He is also the commander of a speratists insurgancy named Patriotic Forces of Donbass. This is from wikipedia and i cannot confirm it.
The peoples army of the south east. They are affiliated with LPR. By committee
Bezlers seperatists group.
Igor Bezler, He is regarded as a loose canon and very impulsive. "Bezler" means devil in Russian and i think it is a nickname. His group is loacted near Horkliva (Gorklova) The group still exists but it unsure if Bezler is still leading it since there are unconfirmed reports of him fleeing to Russia, but there is still a risk that he is there and are still leading them. Also i read a story from a guy who had been a seperatists, and survived the battle of Donetsk airport late in May. Its was interesting to read from his perspective, he also met a guy named "devil" in Horkliva (Gorklova) who gave him money to travel home and good wishes. I think this "devil" might be bezler but the thing that is confusing me is that the seperatist diden't mention anything about this "devil" being impulsic, etc, so it could be that the western media is trying to portrait Bezler as a madman while he pernhaps may not be it. But it could just be a coincidence that the place and nickname match, here is the link to the article: http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-i-was-a-separatist-fighter/25455466.html I think the seperatist worked with the Vostok battalion and after the fight was transfered to Bezlers group who gave him a choich to eighter continue to fight or to go home, he chose the last one.
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Thats all the info i know about the different groups, i just gave you the ekstra information so its easier to know some of the differenses between the goups and some characteristics.
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