CNN: Defense Secretary Carter 'very, very angry' about treatment of 10 U.S. sailors in Iran
Washington (CNN)Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said Thursday he was "very, very angry" when he saw footage of 10 U.S. Navy sailors detained by Iranian authorities broadcast by Iranian television news.
"To see our guys in that situation on Iranian TV -- that's really not okay," Carter said at a Pentagon news conference, adding that the United States "would not have done that."
Ten Navy sailors were detained earlier this month after two small Navy vessels strayed into Iranian waters. Footage of the sailors' capture and detention -- which included images of the sailors on their knees with their hands on their heads -- was quickly broadcast by Iran's Fars News Agency.
One of the videos showed a U.S. sailor apologizing for entering Iranian waters, saying, "It was a mistake that was our fault and we apologize for our mistake."
Read more ....
More News On U.S. Secretary Of Defense Carter's Admission That He Was 'Very, Very Angry' At Iran's Treatment Of 10 U.S. Sailors
Carter ‘very, very angry’ at Iranian video of US sailors -- AP
Pentagon Chief ‘Very, Very Angry’ at Iranian Imprisonment of U.S. Sailors -- Washington Free Beacon
U.S. Defense Secretary Angered By Iranian Video Of Detained Sailors -- RFE
SecDef Carter Enraged At Iran’s Treatment Of US Sailors, Kerry Thankful -- Daily Caller
78 comments:
"To see our guys in that situation on Iranian TV -- that's really not okay," Carter said at a Pentagon news conference, adding that the United States "would not have done that."
Emphasis on the word "that".
We have no more ball I really do miss Ronald Reagan
Why was Carter watching Iranian TV? Must have been bored, before he got very, very angry.
Uh oh... Mr. Carter is angry. That's about the only response we ever offer to Iran when they do something. I'm sure the IRGC are just pissin their pants right now.
Get angry is about all we really can do. As long as Iran has Russian support, they are pretty much untouchable. Perhaps the best way to avoid something like would be not to have our military personnel and military assets in the Persian Gulf where they are an easy target for the Iranians. Maybe they should be redeployed to positions off of America's coasts and along its borders. At least this way they might have a fighting chance to actually defend America.
No matter what we do I really don't expect Iran to stop attacking or trying to harm us. At least with a proper military deployment, our armed forces might have a fighting chance to defend America.
I agree you sound like a good American
You sound like our president let me give you a banana
Yep, spoken like a true American. Iran hasn't even attacked anyone for a very very long time (hundreds of years) and they currently own nuclear bombs ONLY because Israel has nukes and yet you want TO risk war with Iran and possibly cause ww3, like I said, you have spoken like a true American....
Do yourself a favour and stop watching CNN, BBC, FOX, CNBC..... The list is too long but you get the point.
Donald trump would attack Iran anyday, so that says a lot about someone who wants to do the same....
Salim -your words spoken like a true iranian apologist, with zero historical/factual basis for your claims.
you said-
"Iran hasn't even attacked anyone for a very very long time (hundreds of years) and they currently own nuclear bombs ONLY because Israel has nukes "
iran has done plenty of horrendous shit within the last 60 years:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism
"they currently own nuclear bombs ONLY because Israel has nukes"
incorrect. Iran has been vocal via its mullahs on the destruction and annihilation of israel for quite some time.
some cute little quotes:
Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Khamenei, publicly stated that “Zionism is a danger for entire humanity” and that Israel “is a cancerous tumor … in [the] heart of [the] Muslim world.”
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said that the “the very existence of the Zionist regime is … an affront to all world nations” – and called on “all human communities to wipe out this scarlet letter, meaning the Zionist regime, from the forehead of humanity.”
General Amir Ali Hajizadeh, Commander of the Aero-Space Forces of Iran’s Islamic Revolution Guards Corps, threatened that Iran would take action to destroy Israel, saying “the forged regime will be wiped out of the map and thrown into the trash bin of history forever.”
Iran’s President alleged that “the two world wars were designed by Zionists … [who] have been inflicting very heavy damage and suffering on the whole humanity for over two thousand years.”
of course, the real evil that is ravaging the world is hiding in the outstretched politically correct arms of the west...that evil is....yep, thats right:
the religion of peace (islam).
hurhur is right on this and he only lists a small percentage of recent Iranian actions.
Not sure to whom comments 6-9 are directed. If at me, Iran "death to America" is trying to sttack America. They currently enjoy the backing of the world's two most powerful countries. As for Israel, it is a tiny country that can't possibly hurt them nor will it try. As for how Iran attacks, it uses proxies. Examples would be Hezbollah, Hamas, and others. Also, Iran recently went out of its way to kidnap American sailors and humiliate them. They could have easily executed them at little risk to themselves.
At this point an attack by America on Iran is impossible. Iran has much support and it's allies are very strong. The media and others have worked tirelessly to undercut any military action America may once have had. What one really needs to be concened about is an Iranian attack on America. The attack would likely involve the use of proxies. A ptoper redeployment of our forces might give us a fighting chance to defend the United States.
As for the "true American" comment, most Americans don't understand the true threat. If they did, the American economy along with perhaps much of the world economy would come to a grinding a halt as fear paralysis takes over. As such, the threats posed by enemies such as Iran, must be understated and those who would dare point them out neex to be squelched.
Very respectfully I'm not sure you understand just what a true American is. There's much misunderstanding on ths from American elites and those not from the United States. For example, most Americans struggle to feed their families, clothe themselves, and keep roofs over their heads.
As for the news sources mentioned, I seldom watch them. In their attempts to maintain a left of center balance, they make little sense. Hence the Anti-American left is able to dominate the news. I mostly read blogs like this one to try and obtain enough information to reach sound conclusions.
And we will seldom if ever hear or see any of what hurhur points out in any of the media sources mentioned by Salim. Fox may mention this occassionally but the need to be "fair and balanced" prevents them from doing this very often. Besides anyone who points out such things in America will be smeared to the point of their destruction if neccesary. Two basic reasons for this: 1.) As I point out abover, to point out the true nature of the the threat posed by Iran and others would likely mean the destruction of the economy of America and possibly much of the world and 2.) There are a number of Russian, Iranian, and Chinese apologists in the American government and news media. See point 1. Those people will stop at nothing to undermine any effort to confront any of these threats and will stop at nothing where and when possible to destroy anyone who dares point such things out and they have substantial means at their disposal. If I know this, I'm pretty sure those with "means" are well aware of this and since the "means" of Iran's supporters are greater than their "means" and they know challenging them means the loss of their "means", the American people and our "allies" are not informed of the true nature of the threats.
Amongst several generations, both older and younger, the US can never be forgiven for imposing the Shah, seizing Iranian assets, supporting Saddam's war, chemical weapons, taking sides in the Tanker War, Iran Air, sanctions, sponsoring Kurdish terrorism in the north, Baleuch terrorism in the south, MEK terrorism in the east, etc.
Amongst a certain generation of American's, Iran can never be forgiven for toppling the Shah, the humiliation of both the Embassy Hostages and the failed rescue mission, Amal's Beruit bombings, Hezboallah, defeating Saddam's Invasion, having better relations with Iraqi Shia, and a bunch of "petty" humiliations.
For reasons of their own, both Nations Elites like to keep the anger stoked. It's a very symbiotic relationship.
Jay,
You raise very good points. Some reports have indicated that the US role in the disposal of the Shah may have been overstated. Time permitting I will try and locate and post links. I do believe Iran's elites would like to keep the conflict going. After all with Iran's network of alliances that America couldn't possibly hope to match at present, it would seem Iran can end the conflict to it's favor at any time it so wanted. As for America's elites, I don't think they grasp the true nature of the situation. To do so means signifcant problems for anyone who dares speak it aloud as I point out above.
I don't view any of America's very real issues as "petty." I find it intersting but not surprising that you do not refer to Iran's issues as "petty."
As I've stated here and elsewhere a number of times, I would very much like to see this issue settled by a UN Tribunal. As an American, I would be prepared to accept the results providex we get due process. Unfortunately at this point there are a number of oroblems with such an approach. I've detailed many of them elsewhere on this site. The basics are 1.) Any such tribunal is likely to be a kangaroo court that simply rubber stamps whatever Iran wants. 2.) Where do we find judges/jurors who have the courage or wherewithal to withstand intimidation by Iran and it's allies? 3.) Assuming the tribunal renders some type of judgement in favor of America how do we collect? The large and ofetn hostile media microscope America is alwzys under will ensure American cooperation and, in the unlikely event Ametica's leaders didn't yield, crippling economic punishment would be enacted on America and it's leadership. Iran faces no such scrutiny or threats.
Suffice it to say it seems to me significant issues are going to need to be addressed before we can effectively move in the direction of a UN Tribunal. I don't see Iran wanting to do this at any time in the foreseeable future. They are getting to much benefit out of the current situation and have been for a very long time. As for tbe United States, it would seem unwise to submit oneself to biased judging bodies who are subsidiaries of those who wish you harm and are in tbe pocket of your adversaries. As I stated, significant issues will need to be worked through before we can move in such a direction.
I meant disposal of the Mossadegh government that was prior to the Shah. I apologize for the mistatement and the mispellings.
B. Poster,
The reasons why I refer to some of the US issues as "petty" is for example the drone overflight hype, the Iranian missile boat conducting a missile launch awY from a US ship in an Iranian live fire exercise area hype, and the Riverine hype.
From the way that the US is rageing on and on about it, you would think that Iran had gotten "revenge" for Operation Praying Mantis.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis
It's just the ususal bull shite and hype, like when the media bray's about Russian Aircraft, flying in International Airspace, off of England, or Alaska, is the greatest threat to world peace since the Cuban Missile crisis.
And in the US, when Iran is mentioned, there is no mention of what makes Iran "less enlightened" and more dangerous, than the KSA, whom of course we can be BFF's with a do business with,
all iranian state sponsored terrorist acts aside, the issue that is most concerning is their ability to acquire nuclear capabilities.
for example, france has nuclear weapons and so does the united kingdom but nobody worries that they will use them. therefore it is not rocket science to infer that:
its not nuclear weapons that are the problem but who has them and what they might do with them that is the problem.
it is also fairly basic to realize that a militant nation who does not fear its own destruction is a sure threat to its enemies and so adding nuclear weapons just elevates the issue beyond just state sponsored acts of terror by its proxies hezbollah and hamas.
to put things into perspective:
akhbar rafsanjani, often portrayed as a moderate and a pragmatist in the West, articulated the iranian position this way:
"if one day, the islamic world is also equipped with weapons like those that israel posseses now, then the imperialist strategy
will reach a standstill because the use of even one nuclear bomb inside israel will destroy everything. however, it [one bomb] will only
harm the islamic world."
My apologizes for the mispellings. It's a new device I'm working with. I'm just getting used to it and will try and do better in the future.
I looked up Operation Praying Mantis on Wikipedia. This occurred in 1988 a very long time ago. Iran is far strongr relative to America today than it was in 2000 and has strengthened relative to America in every year since at least 2000. As such, it seems reasobable to conclude Iran is stronger relative to America today than it was in 1988.
As such, America might win in a similar conflict today but it's unlikely the victory would be "decisive." In any event, Iran's allies would likely intervene on it's behalf further complicating things for America.
As for the actions of the International Criminal Court on this one in 2003, these types of bodies were biased against America then and are even more biased against America today. As such, I have little trust in tbem to render justice, at least in cases involving the United States.
Sometimes the media attacks against America seem similar to those directed against German Jews in the 1930s. That ended quite badly. I pray these don't end as badly.
Iran has no nuclear weapons, no nuclear weapons program, and the 5+1 Agreement ensures that they will never have one.
There is already an "Islamic bomb", Pakistan has 120-130
of them, but they are all reserved for use against India.
As for Islam vs. Israel, well on the Islamic side it's yammer, yammer, yammer with no real coelitions or even basic agreements since '72, and that was the "Arab" world, not Islam.
When Saudi's talk about the "Islamic World", or Sunni vs. Shia, or old dregs of Mid Revolution Mullah's preach about the "unity" of Islam, it reminds me of Bush's Coelition of the Willing.
Somebody could nuke Mecca and Medina, and the Muslims in Bangladesh, India and Indonesia would raise their heads, ( which is about 50% of the world population), watch the news and then go back to making money.
B. Poster,
You missed the point completely. US pundits, the MSM, the 101st Keyboard Kommando's and Politicians are pissing and moaning about these trivial events as if the Iranians had just sunk the US Navy's 5th Fleet.
Ever read "The End of History", by one of the Neo-con's and Neo-Lib's favorite "historians?
In it he posited that the US had just cemented a Unipolar World, in which the US was the only Superpower, that the entire political, military and economic axis of the whole world, had irretrievably tilted towards Washington, and that this new ordering of the world, would last 100 years.
The book was "obsolete" in less than 5 years.
I wonder what happened?
Did you know that the US has won, or had removed, 81% of the cases raised against it in the International World Court. So what would demonstrate to you that in fact, the iWC is not "biased" against the US,
A 100% win or removal rate?
Or perhaps, a public statement by the Court, that alone amongst nations, the US can never be subject to trial in the IWC?
Still not enough?
Maybe a declaration by the IWC that from now on, the US gets to hear all the cases, weigh all the evidence and make all the judgements?
When Iraq put two Exocet missiles into the USS Stark, the US blamed Iran. When the USS Vincennies, illegally in Iranian waters, shot down a regularly scheduled Iranian passenger jet, the US blamed Iran and handed out medals to the crew all round. When Saddam gassed the Iraqi Kurds with US supplied chemical weapons, the US blamed Iran. When al Quida under Bin Laden bombed the Khobar Towers, the US blamed Iran.
The self pitying whining and impotent anger from the US has been tiring for over a decade, more so when every US problem has been self imposed. Bunch of whiny assed, spoiled rotten, titty babies.
This is a lot of high fallutin moral indignation about nothing. They were detained for violating Iranian borders. They had their hands up, were made to apologize, were on their knees etc. Big deal.
No one is exempt from being shit on for violaying someone else's sovereignty. No one is any better or any less deserving comeuppance than anyone else when they pull a boner; that includes the US. and her allies.
This exceptional nonsense, and all the rhetorical gymnastics engaged to 'splain it away has to stop.
It's f'n childish.
Jay,
I will try and answer what you have posted here. With that said, I'm not sure it is going to be sufficient. I'm pretty sure Goebbels had all this and similar to say about the Jews in the 1930s. Not that you are Goebbels. America's survival is at stake and those who would dare stand up for it's survival are accused of wining. Most Americans are struggling for their survival and do not have time to address such things. It's a pity we cannot be like Canadians or Australians who are far wealthier than we are.
The P5+1 agreement is a joke as Americans are not allowed to verify it and the other members of the group would never allow anyone who might support America to verify it. Essentially this was a gang rape of America. Of course the Obama Administration allowed this to happen. Due to their background this is hardly surprising at what they did. Nevertheless it might have been appreciated, even though could not have prevented it, perhaps they could have offered a protest at such a gang rape.
The notion that Iran has no nuclear weapons program is an article of faith. Actually I patiently told friends and family back in January 2008 that the Israelis working with the Arab Gulf States or the Israelis working without them would take care of this problem so we did not need to worry about it. Of course they could not inform the Americans of the operation as Iranian operatives buried deep in the US government would instantly warn the Iranian government of the operation. I was rather looking forward to seeing the deer in the headlights look on the faces of US government officials as they tried to explain just what happened.
I must say I'm disappointed. Iranian nuclear weapons are an existential threat to America or at least a large number of Americans and we lack the ability to take this out. Others could have or at least I thought they could have.
As for the Islamic bomb of Pakistan, It's a good thing it's not directed against us, at least for now. In any event, as I explained to a friend a few years ago, we could not eliminate even if we wanted to. While India may use and abuse the United States like others often do, this is no friend of the United States but given the array of enemies arrayed against the United States it is hardly surprising the United States will try and find supporters where and when it can.
As for 'Islam vs Israel", this could easily be "Islam vs America." Its probably a good thing they are not organized at this time. While I thin our enemies such as Russia inflamed and exacerbated this problem, it would need to be proved. What is clear is they derive a huge benefit from it.
As for Bush's coalition of the willing, those who signed on took enormous risks. With the Hussein's use of the oil for food program, they had gained the support of many nations/people around the world. Anyone who allied with America in this endeavor took enormous risks. It would have been far easier and more profitable for them to have refused to support America. The only reason to do so would have been because someone thought it right to defend America in spite of the risks or they were sufficiently afraid of the Hussein government and had the courage to stand with America. I am forever grateful for those in the coalition of the willing. I don't think some of them were treated as well as they should have been.
As for nuking Mecca and Medina, no one in America really wants to do that as American military and civilian leaders, rightly or wrongly, are far to traumatized over what happened in Japan to even consider such an option as a first resort.
Jay,
It would be quite easy at this point for Iran to sink the 5th fleet. They have demonstrated they can sink a US aircraft carrier.
As for the "neo-cons", they are irrelevant. No one pays attention to them and they have no important policy positions. Substitute neo-con for Jew and go back to the 1930s and you have a close analogy. In fact, substitute "American" or "America" for "Jew" and we have a dangerously close approximate comparison to 1930s media coverage and today's media coverage. I do pray this ends better today for America and Americans than it did for Jews in Germany in WWII.
Jay,
As for the ICC cases you mention, in US jurisprudence, one must prove the guilt of the corporation or individual they are bringing the case against. In civil court, it must be proved by a preponderance of the evidence. In criminal court, it must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Proving beyond a reasonable doubt is VERY difficult. As for the preponderance of the evidence case, this is not has hard. Given the hostile media coverage facing America, the hostility of the world courts, the prevalence of anti-Americanism within US government leadership, I'm surprised America actually won 81% of so called cases. I suspect this is only to help talking points. I'm reminded of what a CEO of a large company once said, "a day does not go by that someone does not sue me." What I think he meant was us. In any event, bringing the case costs nothing but could offer huge benefits. In fact given the bias against America, it seems likely at least 98% of the 19% of the time the ICC decided against America an injustice was served and America was convicted unjustly. We don't have media elites to defend us as our adversaries, potential adversaries, and want to be adversaries do.
Jay,
As for the USS Stark and other cases you mention, each would need to be studied individually to determine the facts of each case. America as all countries and people can and does make mistakes. Of course if you are America you can expect to be continually flogged for such mistakes. As for your adversaries and potential adversaries, not so much. Now as for your "self pitying anger", "impotent whining", and "spoiled rotten" remarks, I do not sense any of this from current US officials.
I do hope and pray America survives long enough to get better leadership. America faces an existential threat from Iran. Iran does not face an existential threat from America, as it's allies will never allow America to hurt it. If you or one or your family members were in such a situation, I think you would likely "whine", "show anger" or something. Of course you are Canadian. As such, it likely does not resonate with you.
It's far easier to support Iran. It's easier to support the stronger power. Less risky this way and potentially more profitable.
RRH,
It seems to me that the Iranians either 1.) tricked the American GPS systems so they did not know where they were leading them into Iranian territory when they thought they were not, 2.)they came up on the US vessel unsuspecting to its crew and the crew knowing they could surrender or be executed opted for surrender given that there was a lady on board and being assured in a way they could trust that she would not be raped they chose to surrender or be executed, or 3.)some combination.
I think 3 is likely the truth. After all the sim cards were removed from the cell phones by the Iranians. If the Americans entered Iranian territory by accident, there would be no reason to do this as this would validate Iran's position. Now if Iran tricked the Americans into this, releasing the sim cards could be problematic as this might establish what they are really up to and someone might ask uncomfortable questions regarding the true threat posed by Iran.
I think the Iranians set this up in concert with their supporters in the US government. I think many of their supporters are in the Obama Administration and perhaps POTUS himself supports them. In any event, the Iranians sent a message loud and clear. The message is as follows: "we can apprehend your people no matter where they are in the Middle East, we can execute them at our wish, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it."
If they violated Iranian borders on their own accord, there is no reason to remove the sim cards. The world media and much of the US media would back them without question.
As for "splain it away and it has to stop" I'm pretty sure Nazi Germans said this about the Jews before the Jews were led to slaughter. Furthermore I'm pretty sure some Jews defended this before being led to slaughter themselves and tried to speak words to the slaughters trying to prove what good Germans they were up until the slaughter. At this point, there seems little difference between anti-American messaging and that of Nazi Germany against the Jews in the 1930s.
Should I call you a whaambulance?
#1 so, you've lost Germany, France and the UK as allies, way to go.
The US has no independent verification rights because the IAEC, a reasonably trustworthy International organization, ( other than the US and Mossad spies inside) is in charge and the US has spent so many decades faking evidence and creating bogus charges.
Even France, the U.K. and Germany have grown tired of the US.
Way to go.
2) claims of faith show utter ignorance of basic science.
3) everything is now an " extistential " threat to the US, Global warming, Walmart, ISIS, oil prices, the reality is that Iran has no nuclear weapons, no nuclear weapons program, and no delivery system that can target the US. The only extistential threat to the US is the US's own actions.
Dude, you lost Britain, France and Germany, nations that have taken it up the ass from you for decades and said, " please Sir, can I have some more". Was it all the lies, all the betrayals, all the bullshit that finally made them give up on you?
1) Like most, you are a moron. It's Whabbist Islam , Deobandi Islam and Hashquabandi Sufiism, ( roughly 5 million people) against every one else on earth, but the KSA, who's Iman's and and Madrassa's have corrupted the Deobandi and Hashquabandi sects and are trying to do the same to every other Sunni school, funded of over 80 Islamic Jihadi terrorist groups, who have killed over 27,000 Americans and over 1million others, just in the last two decades, who are your BFF's.
2) the Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Palau and Solomon Islands, certainly did take great risks, lending their names. good thing Costa Rica denied they had ever joined.
3) the US has formally issued Nuclear threats against other countries 67 times, and informally 328 times. Nuclear blackmail is a key element of US foreign policy.
1) and the US is pissing and moaning about an illegal entry into Iranian waters, in which nobody go shot, as if the entire 5th Fleet was sunk. An unarmed drone, legally overflying ga US warship in International Waters is like the "New Pearl Harbour".
You know that Victoria Nuland, is a Neo-con?
You know that Samantha Powers is a Neo-con?
You know that Susan Rice is a Neo-con?
You know that Ash Carter is a Neo-Con?
You know that Hillary is a neo-lib, ( the liberal clone of a neo-con)?
And Kerry?
The Obama Administration at last count had 58,462 neo- cons or neo-Libs in senior policy posts with close to 487,659 in mid management ranks, through out all aspects of US governance.
3) so Americans are the "New Jews" under Nazi control, bull shit.
The US war of choice in Iraq killed 4,491 Americans, and killed well over 687,500 Iraqi's. Your pissing and moaning is like an SS Guard at Ebansee complaining about a paper cut.
Got it, alone amongst Natikns the US is utterly pure and innocent and has never engaged in criminal activities.
Are you aware that no US Court, can even come close to the high standard of Jourisprudence that the ICC and the ISC are held to?
Cases in the US that regularly result in false convictions, don't even meet the ICC and ISC standards for entry on the docket.
Even the US Supreme Court, by jourisprudence standards, is Elmer Fudd compared to the ICC and IWC. I
1) Mealy mouthed shite, coupled with new culpability ignorance, and ignorance is no defence, but it's something the US relies on, have you thought of running for Office?
2) Existential threat bs. The US, it's allies, and it's proxies, have killed in the past three decades, over 778,000 Iranians, and in the same time frame, Iran, it's allies and it's proxies, have killed less than 2,700 Americans.
In that same time frame, more American's have died from tying helium balloons to lawn chairs and going for a flight.
3) the US is still the #1 economic power , ( barely) and the # 1 military power. Iran is #28 economically and # 23 militarily. The US has an economy 487% larger than Iran's and a military 9,857% more powerful than Iran.
But I know,
"Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business."
- Michael Ledeen, holder of the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute
1) the "official" word is the USN personnel screwed up basic navigation, screwed up an "idiot proof" navigation system and would up 56 nautical miles off course, in a highly restricted zone.
The only other reasonable possibility is that they were engaged in an illegal covert operation in Iranian waters off of the most secure and covert IRDC base in the Gulf.
You can't "spoof" GPS from 56 nm out, and the "spoof" would easily fail if basic visual navigation rules was followed.
I've sailed boat's 500 miles "offshore" with no sight of land, and guided them into a 15 metre harbour entrance on " landfall", in a fog with less than 10 metres visibility, pre-GPS. That's basic, textbook navigation.
2) 2 SIM cards were by US claims, removed from Satphones on the US boats. 4 other Satphones did not have their SIM cards removed, and none of the 10 cellphones on board had their SIM cards removed.
As the simcards provide the "new user" with the previous user's account, up until the user cancels the phone with the service provider, it's much more likely this was a case of "petty theft". If the Satphones were US Military encrypted, then it was a minor case of "espionage".
3) Yes, it's quite clear, the Obama Administration is an Iranian proxy, a Manchurian Cantidate per say. Sadly they also "own" all of the current crop of US Presidential Cantidates, other than Bernie and Trump. they have managed to achieve this through infiltration of shawarma kiosks, restaurants and shops. any one who has eaten more than 3 meals of shawarma becomes an involentary Iranian agent through the mix of secret spices. The Russians got Bernie years ago through sour cream and borscht, and the Chinese subverted Trump via clothing deals for his brand and Hunan smoked meat.
4) And again with the Jews and the Holocaust. I am pretty sure that 5, 10, 15 years from now, becuase of the attacks on Planned Pregnancy, restrictions on abortions, restrictions on birth control, teenage pregnancies and so called Purity balls and idiotic fundimentalist Christian chastity pledges there will be more and more ignorant American's the rest of the world has to deal with for a long, long time.
Yup
Iranian apologist? I'm sunni.......
Just ignore him man, I know it's hard but ignorant people just want the attention.
jay - like most on the left, your emotion gets the best of you. as soon as your rhetoric fails to shut down the discussion in your favour you begin to name call and resort to listing as much half-truths as possible. flooding your 'victim' with off topic red hearings meant to 'overwhelm' and bully your victim to silence.....
my advice to you (if you would like to maintain some type of legitimacy for yourself, its seems like you actually care which i would advise against cause this is the internet, nobody cares):
keep it simple stupid
salim - you have proven yourself to be extremely bias while claiming to be unbiased and objective elsewhere on this site. oops drka drk muhermerd jerherd...
"And no, I'm not a fan of Russia or China and I'm not "anti American",for me, siding/supporting any country (politically and militarily speaking) Is pretty disgusting. So I try to be unbiased."
Salam brother
I know right! Ugh, I guess this world only revolves around those who support the West. And it's hell for those who don't.
I never said I'm unbiased, I said that "I TRY to be unbiased"
Believe it or not im a human being, so us creatures tend to be naturally biased no matter how hard we try, but the important thing is that we at least try.
Peace
Moron.
40 years ago I was a "Red Tory", socially liberal, fiscally conservative.
Still am, never changed.
30 years Ago the Con's had moved so far right, I couldn't vote for them any more. Little tip, they key to "prosperity" is not in offshoring all the working class and middle class jobs to 3rd World Counties. So I voted Liberal, who's social and economic policies then mirrored want had been Conservative policies a decade earlier,
20 years ago, I started voting NDP, because the Lib's had moved so far right, I couldn't even hold my nose and vote for them any more.
Now, with TPP, I can't even vote for the Dppers and have a clear consience.
In the US, Reagan's policies wouldn't even get him a table in the Dem's, left of Bernie.
If Stansfield were reincarnated, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat, but these days', he'd be a Green Party Cantidate.
If Joe Clark were reincarnated, again, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat, but only the Socialist Party of Canada, would have him.
Do yourself a favour, educate yourself. Look at the policies and platforms of every Republican cantidate from Reagan back to the end of WWII, compare and contrast them to the current crop, and see where they fit.
( there's an app for that).
Little tip, they don't. They are far too "left" for both the Republican Party, and the Democrstic Party.
And hurhur, I really don't give a shite what you think. You are just another ignorant, self important American with a persecution complex, with no understanding of even basic realities.
Don't look under your bed by the way, there are 1,000 IRGC members lying there with knives, just waiting for you to fall asleep.
Salam, Salim,
the "West" ain't what it used to be. B.Poster is pissed because the US has through it's own actions, lost France, Germany and even their trained pony, the U.K., in regards to Iran,
But loves him some Saudi.
RRH, a Canadian vet, who was probably pretty gung ho back in the day, is now rooting for Russia, Iran, Syria and the concept of national Soverignity.
Times change, and there is hope, out side of the US.
thats cute jay, jesus loves you...you too salim :)
And I thought this was going to be a quiet comment thread.
Lol, it looks like you were way off
I love isa (jesus) (peace be upon him) as well :)
Jesus is an imaginary sky God, might as well say Pokemon loves me.
WNU Editor,
Would have been fine but for all the Whaambulance calls and CT.
At regular points in time, "we" your readers and commentators, get tired of the self pity and CT, have a few beers and vent a little.
These days, you can pretty much bet, based on US media hype, that anything with both the US and Iran, in the subject, is going to get a lot more "attention".
Given the current state of "the world" , I'm pretty sure the "whammbulanece" will find some new places to stop, other than Iran , in the next 4 months.
The internet can be so whiny.
I know that jesus is not a God according to our Islam but he still exists, and he's a prophet and is extremely respected in Islam. (when I asked you "are you a Muslim" it was a genuine question, I wasn't being disrespectful or anything.
Jay .... I love it when people vent. Sometimes it is good for the soul. A few beers also helps. :)
I also know that people love it when they see such action. So far .... 1800 visitors have checked this post alone .... probably just to read the comment thread. And as for Defense Secretary Carter being very very very angry .... which was the original purpose of this post .... it is on the bottom of everyone's priority list.
Salam, Salim,
Accorinding to fundi scripture, every one who has not accepted Jesus as their savior, will rot in hell.
The Jesus loves you thing ain't sincere.
I'm an "extistential" Buddhist. God's don't exist but the good works their prophet's do, does exist.
My brother is a "fundi", fundimentalist Christian praying for the end times and the rapture, and I have more than enough experience to know when "Jesus loves you" is offered as both an insult and a dismissal.
Guess what, it's " code" for we get to burn in hell.
Just because I personally don't believe in "Sky Gods", or an afterlife, or " Heaven and Hell", does not mean I cannot show respect for "faith" or certain eminations of faith, or understand the history, ( more than most practitioners),
But trust me, I do know a fundi veiled insult when I see or hear one.
As-salamu alaykum, my friend.
Well, WNU Editor,
Ash Carter can have his " hissy fit" and we can have ours.
And all of us, one side or another, are "angry" at Ash Carter.
Hope he reads this thread.
Thanks for allowing us to vent.
[Responding to the second post in this chain]
Reagan only had one ball? Amazing.
Jay. According to my counter .... I do get a lot of visitors from Washington and Maryland .... a hell of a lot of visitors.
Reagan had no balls,
After Nancy caught him with Piper Laurey, she had them cut off and carried them around in her purse.
According to tinsel town gossip.
WNU Editor,
Hopefully some of " them" are paying attention .
Jay,
I never said I love me any Saudi. As for losing allies, it is far more profitable and less risky for them to side with others. I do agree it seems unlikely these riverine vessels were this far off course. As for the removal of the sim cards, I read that at www.joshuapundit.com I think most likely the vessels were disabled by Iran and then moved to where they were by them. I'm pretty sure the Iranians informed the crew that they know exactly where their families are and they will face reprisals should they get out of line.
If the IAEA is so trustworthy, Americans need to have access to the inspections. Iran and it's allies are not about to let the US do anything underhanded even if it wanted to. There's nothing for them to worry about.
Most of what you write everyone in America is aware. The media and the school systems make sure Americans are well versed in pro Iran messages. Many do recognize the sophistication of the Iranian messaging machine and don't accept this on blind faith.
You hatred towards Christians is unwarranted. Such people hold little political power in the US and are just trying to live their lives. As for the abortion issue, many would view this as the murder of a child. As such, there is a moral obligation to speak up and do what one can to prevent this.
It's to bad that no one feels a moral obligation to speak up or act when America and it's citizens are treated unfairly and singled out for special venomous hatred. To do so, one is accused of whining and other worse things.
In any event, thank you for the dialogue on this.
If the riverine boats were not in the Persian Gulf, this could not have happened. They could not have been overpowered by the Iranians and the crew humiliated in this manner. Military assets such as this really need to be properly deployed off of America's coast where they would at leas have a fighting chance of defending the United States.
I still would like to see the UN Tribunal to address and settle any and all outstanding claims that Iran and America have against each other or perceive to have. Hopefully some day this can happen in an equitable manner. Certain issues will need to be addressed first to ensure America gets a fair trial and that are mechanisms in place to ensure American interests are properly represented and that there is a mechanism in place to ensure Iran abides by the outcome.
Of course the Iranians might, falsely in my considered opinion, raise the same concerns from the other direction. Suffice it to say, at a minimum, there are serious trust issues that will need to be worked out between the nations and the process.
1) even the US government has admitted the Riverine boat were in Iranian waters off of the most secure and secret IRGC base in the Gulf. Any thing else at this point in time is CT.
2) after having shot it's sad with made up stories and lies about Iraq and Iran, even your closest Allies, France, Britain and Germany can't believe anything you say any more. "f*ck the EU" probably didn't help either. The US was offered Independent verification of Iran's nuclear program, in the negotiations, as long as Iran was allowed independent verification of US nuclear programs,
Funny, the US passed on that offer.
Internationally, even amongst US allies, as flawed and corrupt as it is, the IAEC is trusted 1,000 times more than the US.
Too many Colin Powell moments, too much wasted blood and treasure.
3) Please provide one single top 15 MSM op-Ed supporting Iran. In 30 years of looking, I have yet to see one, but in the past 2 years, I have seen a couple dozen supporting al Quida.
4)Guess you never heard of Ted Cruz,
http://m.thespec.com/news-story/6255818-religion-in-u-s-presidential-politics-how-god-kept-surfacing-in-gop-debate/
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi
Technically, Fundi's and Dominionists, arn't Christians. The New Testament was supposed to supplant the Old Testament but yet they cling desperately to Levidicus.
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/8873-the-united-states-military-a-crusader-force
5) again with the persecution complex. I have half a mind to copy your previous posts in this regard, and send them to AIPAC, the JDL, the ADL and a couple hundred Hasbaradim and let them deal with it.
You have absolutely no clue how privledged your life is, simply from being born an American.
Now you are just spouting CT.
What's next, the Iranian's grabbed them in port at NWNB China Lake, loaded them on a freighter, cruised through the Great Lakes, down the Saint Lawfence, down the US East Coast, across the Gulf of Mexico, into the south Atlantic, through the Pamema Canal, into the Pacific, past Japan and into the Indian Ocean, through the Arabian Sea, the Straight's of Hormuz and all the way to Farsi Island at the far end of the Persian Gulf,
And it was all kept hush hush because the IRGCN with just two dinghy's and 10 guys is so powerful that it could take over the whole US of A in one long weekend?
Never gonna happen, the UNGA has no power and the US has a veto at the UNSC.
to make up for the lost time.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjsnYmi4z0U
Jay,
The riverine issue has to be kept low key. The American people simply cannot be told the truth regarding the magnitude of the threat. To do so would likely mean the collapse of the American economy and possibly much of the world as paralysis by fear sets in and for those in powerful positions who support Iran the United States needs to be demonized. To report the true nature of the threat would undermine this demonization process.
As for take over the entire US Navy in a weekend, this would seem unlikely but they could do some serious damage. As for the intel leading up to Iraq clearly the WMD were not "there" as in where thought it would be. At the time, I suggested the US Intellegence Services needed to be disbanded and start from scratch seeking the assistance of allies such as Britain and Israel to help us construct a competent Intellegence Services. This didn't happen, as it was far more profitable to smear George W Bush and others. Many staked careers and reputations on the notion that "Bush lied." As such, other evidence was never seriously considered that might refute the standard narrative or place some doubt about it.
I would be reluctant to allow Iran to be able go over nuclear program, as they are trying to destroy America and with their allies are fully capable of doing so. If they were to publically and forcefully renounce their dream of death to America and follow this up with action, then things could change in this regard.
The main stream media fails to consistently report on the nature of the Iranian threat. This would seem to indicate support or at the very least fear of reprisals.
As "f*ck the EU," they've been doing this to America for quite some time. I'm familiar with this saying and will research the entire context. Frankly, if I were POTUS, we would completely separate from them. I'd start by refusing to support sanctions against Russia with everything we have and support Russia's position in Ukraine and Eastern Europe with everything we have. This would make it problematic for them at best to have Ukraine in the EU or NATO. That I think would really upset them. I believe it is a worthwhile price to pay losing these allies if it helps us gain better relations with Russia.
A UN General Assembly resolution while not binding would have enormous symbolic significance. If decided against America, the pressure against it to comply would be enormous. As for Iran not so much. I agree it's not going to happen in the near to mid term. At this point, I'm under no delusion that Iran will ever be held to account for anything.
As for Mr. Cruz, he's unelectable as POTUS. While I would be inclined to support him, he's not electable. America is a left of center country politically and socially. As such, his candidacy would not be supported by enough people to give him a reasonable chance to win. At least this is how it is today. By November who knows but it seems unlikely enough Americans are going to embrace his viewpoints for him to be electable.
"You have no clue how privileged your life is..." Thank you. Most Americans don't feel that way especially when it is a constant struggle to feed the families, clothe themselves, keep roofs over their heads, and secure adequate medical care. There's little time or funds for much else. Many Americans do realize the enormous misconceptions that are prevalent about our country.
1) the only "threat" the Riverine incident represents, is that the USN has lost basic, fundimentalist proficiency in DR Navigation. A far bigger "threat" is the "Fat Leonard" scandal.
2) a. While the IRGCN and the IIRAF could put a "hurt" in on the US 5th Fleet and the US allies in the Gulf, the US has 5 more, while Iran has two"fleets" each composed of one frigate, a tanker and a supply ship.
While Iran can "close" the Gulf to commercial shipping, it's not because they can sink any and all commercial ships in the Gulf, it's because no Insurance Company would risk insuring a Gulf bound ship, and unlike during the "Tanker War", Japan doesn't have the money to pony up the insurance and if push came to shove, would just increase their imports from Russia.
2) b. There was no problem with the intelligence, both the White House and Downing Street " cooked" the intelligence to fit political goals. Did you know that the annual DIA Assessment on the Iranian Nuclear program, since 2002, determined that if Iran had a nuclear weapons program, it had been long shut down. Did you know that was the exact same conclusion that the IAEA stated in their report after the P5+1 inspections?
That means that every time a US President, a Sec Def, a State Sec, a COISC Member, a Pentagon or Alphabet Agency spokesperson stood In front of a microphone and talked about the Iranian Nuclear Weapons program, they were lying their asses off.
The Rest of the World noticed. 17 bald faced lies a week, for 13 years, like clockwork, on top of all the past lies.
3) if you were paying attention to world events over the past three years, you would not need to research Victoria Nuland's "f€ck the EU" statement.
The UNGA regularly "censures" the US. 1180 last year alone, for a grand total of 11,458,681 since 1945, which puts the US in 4th place. It's just spit in the wind and the US public could give a crap about the UNGA.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/behind-the-numbers/post/the-united-nations-do-americans-still-hate-it/2012/04/26/gIQANXPjjT_blog.html
4)a Cruz was the Republican Party Establishment favorite, and might still be. It's too early to tell.
4).b are you aware that Bernie Sanders is far to the right of even the new Canadian Liberal Prime Minister, who is "centerist". the US has not had a "leftist" Cantidate since Eugene Debbs.
5) Imagine trying to do all that while the US bombs you, warlords run amuck, and US drones and SOF teams kill anyone who sticks their head up. that's happening in 29 countries right now, 1/6th of the world.
Not sure who "Fat Leonard" is. It's not surprising that the US has lost proficiency in navigation. The training the US military gets right now is substandard and morale is poor thus making them easy pickings for the Iranian Navy. As I stated, I would not have had these men and woman in that place had I been POTUS or had power within the military.
The Iranians would likely use swarming tactics to cripple or destroy larger and less maneuverable battle ships. At least this is how the war simulations have it. In such a battle the US would likely lose much of its Naval assets in the region with no guarantee of victory. Add in Iran's allies and victory becomes even more problematic for the US.
The problem with the pre 2002 intelligence reports is the tendency of US officials to overestimate our own capabilities while underestimating that of adversaries and potential adversaries. The 911 attacks changed the calculus on this. Bottom line the intelligence turned out to be incorrect because the CIA lacked the basic skill sets to do it properly. These problems have not been addressed because it was more politically expedient to say "Bush lied."
Had it been a lie someone would be in jail but this means a trial. If this happened, the full truth might come out. To many powerful people simply have to much invested in the simple narrative that "Bush lied." To expose the fallacy of this would mean to much financial loss to too many people for this to be allowed to happen. Furthermore in a trial in America it is VERY difficult for the prosecution to get a conviction. At a minimum, this would likely reveal just how difficult the situation really is/was. It's better for political purposes to keep it as it is. Better to have one's political opponents twist in the wind I believe.
Actually I am aware of the f*ck the EU statement. I'm also aware of the bias against America in much of the media. As such, I'm not sure we are getting the full context of what happened nor do I have much confidence we will at any time in the foreseeable future.
As for the UNGA, I'm aware of this. Essentially it costs nothing to bring a case against America no matter the merits and getting a censure is quite easy for a quick score. They don't always choose to enforce them because doing so might shine a light on things they don't want shone and it's easier for America to go along to get along.
Cruz may well be the establishment candidate but as I stated, at this time, he's probably not electable. Bernie Sanders would be far more electable than he, at this point.
Actually most of the world does quite well financially and economically. Where the US military is active is in areas where threats are posed to the US and it's "allies." Furthermore with the active media scrutiny it puts the military in a very difficult spot and is a huge advantage to adversaries and potential adversaries.
There probably are better ways to go about this though. If I were POTUS, I would have our troops redeployed to positions where they would be able to defend America such as along its coasts and off its borders. "Allies" can pick up the slack in some of these areas if it is necessary.
just viewing this post and reading through the entertainment.
most time invested in this thread: jay
least amount of life: jay
most tears shed: jay
I had long suspected US Intel services were not as good as they needed to be. Getting caught completely flat footed on 911, failing to find the WMD in Iraq, and failing to properly understand the Iraq "insurgency" confirmed this. We have allies such as the UK who are far better at this sort of thing than we are. Even they along with other coalition partners erred in the assumptions about where the expected WMD would be. As such, this is not an exact science. With that said, at the time, I had suggested disbanding US Intel Services and starting from scratch getting allies like the UK and Israel to help us construct a more competent agency. Had this been done we'd probably be in a better situation today.
George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are the most hated people in America and the most hated noun is neo-con. As such, getting them convicted and making them spend the rest of their days in jail would be very easy. The problem is the trial. The Bush lied meme would risk being exposed. The same applies to America's enemies. Interpol could issue warrants, agents from other nations operating in America could make the apprehension, and we could begin the trial but again such a trial risks exposing the true threat posed by the Saddam government. Many don't want such things exposed.
I looked up "Fat Leonard." Thank you for bringing this to my attention. This is a truly sad situation and very likely harmed US national security or could have but very respectfully I don't think it rises to the threat of Iran and the individuals involved are being punished. It seems two mistakes were made by the people involved. 1.)Committing the crime in the first place. 2.)A big to do was made about the homecoming to Cambodia of one of the officers. Many powerful people don't like it when US military personnel are portrayed in a positive light and will move to destroy them. Any officers who is thinking clearly understands this and endeavors to keep a low profile especially while he/she is active.
On a side note, this did General Petraeus in along with foolishly choosing to have a mistress and accidently leak classified information that no one I'm aware has explained exactly how it damaged national security. Once he implemented the "surge" and allowed the US a face saving exit as opposed to total humiliation he sealed his fate. Many in the media and important government positions had staked their reputations and fortunes on the US being humiliated here.
If he did damage national security, they could have convicted him quickly, quietly, and sent him to prison for the rest of his life. They needed to have him twist in the wind and they are still at it.
Like General Petraeus, once one of the officers in "Fat Leonard" received favorable publicity, this pretty much ensured someone would be looking closely at them and their criminal misdeeds would be exposed. If one is in the military in the US, do NOT seek publicity especially if you are active or just recently inactive and don't commit crimes.
I wanted to be in the military but my eyesight is not good enough. I know this rule about military service. Don't seek positive publicity and don't commit crimes. They should have to but emotion and greed can sometimes get the better of even the best people unfortunately.
They're neck and neck.
right now, jay is feverishly preparing his rebuttal...his fingers, at this point, bleeding from the sheer intensity of his hand jamming. theres alot at stake. ur right phil they're damn close....
My money is on the Red Tory.
Generalizations, assumptions and hysterical conflation do not make an argument B.
What evidence of GPS trickery? How do you impute Iranian intent to rape? Who are "the Iranian supporters in Washington"?
Regards "messaging",
How the hell do you draw a parallel between the Jews of early Twentieth Century Europe and Americans of today? That's quite a stretch B and is a perfect example of the dodgyness that's employed to 'splain things away when it comes to U.S. and allied policy. It's a strawmam and a weak one at that.
I'm sure the Jews of Europe were not running around bombing, assassinating, invading, funding/supplying proxies, supporting the worst regimes around, while violating laws and holding everyone else accountable to them. The policy is rotten and deserves censure. Censure does not equal advocating loading folks into cattle cars. It's a ridiculous, fantasmic, and shameful comparison.
If anyone is getting sh@t in it's Russia, Iran and N. Korea with China and Venezuela as close runners up.
Back to Iran,
Are they angelic? Without sin? No. But Iran has beem under attack since long before the revolution. Having someone at you all the time tends to make you a bit paranoid, maybe even a tad hyper defensive.
But you are right on one score B. It's (past) time to bring the forces home.
A paddy wagon.
A paddy wagon.
RRH,
Thanks for your reply. We make generalizatikns and assumptions based upon the evidence available. We don't always get it right.
As for the GPS issue, someone with Naval experience pointed out this pssibility elsewhere. In any event, something doesn't seem right. If these men and woman are on some kind of top secret mission against Iran and got caught, all the dtails get released and ghe Americans are likely sumariky executed or at least the details of the mission end up on Iranuan and later world tv. Instead we get an apology and mere humiliation of those people. As such, the riverine was likely well out of Iranian space, capturdd by Iran, and tgen taken into Iranian space. The restrictive rules of engagement the US is under combined with superior Iranian tactics made it problematic for US forces to mount an effective defense. A naval source I read suspects much of this but he underdstimates Iranian capabilities.
A key difference between America today and the state of Israel is both countries have militaries. The European Jews of the WWII era did not. US military actions do not happen in a vacum and need to be evaluated in context.
As for Iran, what they probably should do now is take this before a UN tribunal. I'd expect the tribunal to simply rubberstamp whatever Iran wants and given that POTUS and much of his team have been heavily influenced by the anti-American left throughout their lives it seems likely they aren't going to have the fortitude to resist assuming they actually wanted to. Instead the Iranian leadership needs to fan the flames of paranoia.
As for Iran's supporters in Washington, it's evidenced by the steadfast refusal of the elites to be truthful regarding the true nature of the threat and lack of any real attempt to counter Iranian messaging.
Getting even further off topic, there could be a separate tribunal to settle all outstanding issues between Iran and Israel. While I have no real confidence America's leadership will vigorously work to ensure America receives a fair trial, I'm pretty sure Israel's will.
I must say we sure have gotten WAY off the original topic of WNU's post. While I don't think anyone's opinions will change, this has been interesting. Thanks to all for the dialogue on this.
Post a Comment